How to “fuck” Google and Yandex: black and white SEO website promotion. Shestakov | People PRO #74

In issue 74, Sergey Pavlovich talks with Oleg Shestakov, founder and co-owner of Rush-analytics.ru and Rush-agency.ru.

Sergey Pavlovich (hereinafter referred to as the joint venture): - Friends, hello! The new issue of "People Pro" is on the air, and today we are talking about SEO, about "black" SEO (author's note: hereinafter - SEO) and how to fuck Google and Yandex, as they say, without taking off your pants.

A man came to us - Oleg Shestakov. Many people know him - this is Rush Agency, a very famous SEO company. He even got confused - he brought his bike, jacket. We will play one bike, a cool bike.

Oleg Shestakov (hereinafter - OH): - For the best question on SEO in the comments, we will play today.

SP: - Yes. Whoever asks the best question on SEO topics, site promotion, promotion - he will receive such a wonderful story.

What is SEO?

SP: – SEO (hereinafter referred to as SEO). What is SEO anyway? It's just that a lot of people will be watching. Maybe some don't know...

OR: Let's talk about SEO. I have been doing search for about ten years already, probably 11. That is, the promotion of search mathematics, the study of algorithms. Classic: SEO is Search Engine Optimization, in fact - website promotion in search.

SP: – To receive free organic data.

OR: - In fact, the task of the SEO is to drive the site to the top of the issue according to the necessary requests. Not just to drive, but to stay there, and when people gain something, you would receive conditionally free traffic. That is, you need to drive it so that the site stays there and brings you traffic and money.

SP: - The fastest result ... Today I give you a fresh site, for example, with high-frequency queries - "buy an iPhone." Here I give you a website today. How soon can you get him into the top 10 Yandex for the query "buy an iPhone"?

OR: - This also makes sense and experience in SEO, which you understand: by the phrase "buy an iPhone" you will not come out with a new site in Yandex.

SP: - What about Google?

OR: “Google still has a chance. With a new site - two years, if done using "white" methods. You can drive in a couple of weeks, if you use the "black". The question is how long will he stay there. Again, this tells you whether you understand how search works or not. Usually now, for many commercial queries such as electronics (all sorts of online stores), in the top you see Eldorado, M. Video”, “Beru.ru”, “Yandex. Market". Issues are busy there.

Earnings in the USA, portfolio of Sergey Pavlovich in United Traders

It is also important to understand when you are doing SEO - there are niches that you simply cannot get into. It means you don't have to go there. You should be able to analyze the issue and understand that you have nothing to do there. I will take other requests and take traffic in a different way. In short, “buy an iPhone” can be withdrawn either by black methods or for a long time. The fastest result that we did was a website that came to us from SEO specialists (we are engaged in our projects and do SEO for clients in Russia, the USA, Latin America), who did nothing. Well, we looked at the admin panel: they forgot to publish articles, all pages. We published it, added it to the index - the top 1 was the next day. There are such results.

SP: – That is, they had content written, but they did not post it?

OR: - Yes, they just didn’t post it and that’s it. Good content: you index it in Yandex. Webmaster" - and the site flies. In general, if you make the right website, do the right internal optimization…

SP: – You mean the so-called technical SEO?

OR: – Yes, technical SEO and content in many topics, if they are not very “meaty” (such as finance, such as electronics), you can drive the site to the top during indexing. He will not be top 1, he will be in the top ten, he will bring traffic. It is very important. Again, in different topics it is important to understand how the search works in a particular topic. To do this, you need to understand how search engines are generally arranged.

What is a ranking?

OR: - Search in general is a rather complicated thing - what is Yandex, what is Google, and they have differences in algorithms. How ranking happens: you make a website, a robot comes, sucks the pages into its database, it analyzes whether it is relevant to the query “buy an iPhone”. If it’s relevant, that is, it answers the query “buy an iPhone” (there are keys, the right type of content, product cards, photos, videos) – okay, it’s relevant. Then the ranking begins: let's compete with other sites, compare who is better. Here ranking is just the process of sorting a site into the top 10 / top 1000 - you have to bypass everyone. This is the funniest, most important point in SEO - you have to understand how it works.

In Yandex, now the ranking formulas work in such a way that there are about 800 factors - the page is evaluated by eight hundred factors. And 60% of them are evaluated by artificial intelligence. You can imagine that for each query that you promote, the ranking formula in Yandex, with which you bring yourself to the top, fight with other sites, is radically different. People who will tell you - “Yes, I know ranking algorithms! - just send them. Each query has its own ranking formula.

The factors that allow you to reach the top are the “technical” that you mentioned (site structure, so that the site loads quickly, adaptability, mobile version, urls are correct), the correct text that you need to be able to analyze must be written correctly - in Basically, everything is at the start. If you do the “technical” correctly, do the texts correctly, roll out the site, it will already have visibility and traffic. We don’t take Forex, gray topics, black ones (we’ll talk to you separately, it works a little differently there)…

So, if you understand how it works ... By the way, I recommend a book (edited by Yandex) - called "Introduction to Information Retrieval". Semi-scientific book. Read the first 8 chapters, then the multidimensional spaces of vectors begin - there is no need to read there. Good book to understand how search works.

When you understand that the search works in a certain way, you understand what you can influence - these are texts, this is the behavior of users on the site, these are links that are from other sites and the behavior on the issue. Accordingly, all this can be wound, if you want.

SP: What is the most important factor, or a combination?

OR: – If you don’t have relevant text on the page (correct titles, meta tags and text), the rest doesn’t work. You need to start by creating a relevant page. Behavioral factors are working very cool and powerful now.

SP: - This is to keep the user as long as possible on this page, right?

OR: Everyone thinks so.

SP: - I, as an inhabitant, think so.

OR: – In fact, there are two types of factors that search engines evaluate. These are the so-called on-page factors that are read on the page: here, a person entered the page from a search, he clicks something there, clicks on the menu, scrolls - all this is recorded. You know, Yandex has a Webvisor - you can watch a video of behavior. This is one story - yes, it affects, yes, good ...

It is necessary to think from the logic of search engines. Where the search engine has full control and has all the data? That's right, on your issue. So, he takes this as the most complex signal, which is difficult to fake. Behavioral ones on the issue are the most powerful. The most powerful factor is the last-click (last click). Imagine: a user goes through the sites, clicks, wants to buy an iPhone, comes in - there is no this new one, with three "burners" of the iPhone. It turns out. Goes to the next one: oh, there is with three "burners", but no pink. Goes on: oh, pink; 250 GB, with three "burners", new, fashionable - excellent!

SP: The one he was looking for.

OR: - Orders. Important! It closes the window of this site in the browser, and then closes the issue (or another page of it). "Yandex" sees (and "Google" just about) that a person found on this site what he wanted - which means that the site is good. The whole industry of cheating behavioral factors is built on this.

In general, I am in favor of not spoiling the search ecosystem with cheats. There are niches in which there is just “black” promotion, “black” niches, and so on. Estimate, here you are doing a good business, and two schoolchildren came who just wind up and sell trash in your subject with bots ...

SP: - They ruin the reputation of the entire industry, they take customers away from you ...

OR: - I think that there is no need to bog down the search with cheats, there is no need to put link rings, to bend the whole thing ...

SP: – Link rings?

What are link rings?

OR: - Previously, link rings, link farms worked. You put a bunch of any left links with anchors and raise the site in the search results.

SP: – I know about link farms, for example. What are link rings?

OR: - In fact - link farms, when you can relink in a circle. There are different linking schemes: “Star”, “Cube” ... This worked in the 11th year.

If everyone starts to press the search, then ... Far from stupid people sit in Yandex, they monitor the search in real time, how it works; there are DCG, NDCG metrics, that is, the quality of the search - how much, according to the way the search engine thinks, the issue should be formed, how it is really formed. They compare, they see that someone is cheating, they start tightening the screws: they just turn on the anti-spam.

The search can turn the screws so that you can't do anything. He can, if he wants to, he really can, so you shouldn’t press too hard and be impudent, because then you will harm the entire industry. There will be no white "white" SEO - you will not be able to display, for example, your dad's website, which teaches English via Skype, because there will be doorways on stolen content.

Once again: these are texts, these are links, this is the structure of the site, these are behavioral; well, all sorts of region settings and stuff. If we discard all the tinsel that they say about SEO (because there are a lot of all sorts of myths in SEO, a lot of shkolota writes that doesn’t understand anything), then the current actions that you can do are pretty simple if you know what to do.

Differences between Yandex and Google. organic search

SP: - Fine. About the book where we can learn all this, you said. You have now voiced a set of important factors (we have succeeded in five), we roughly know how it all works. Maybe we can talk then about the differences between Yandex search and Google search? In the CIS market for a start.

Immediately question. I was told that now there is a commercial issue - for example, I am selling a Bosch juicer, model such and such - and that I will not go out in organic now, because that Google - Yandex automatically slows me down so that I gave them money for paid advertising. And in the search results for my query “Bosch juicer such and such” (I just checked, the Belarusian guys told me) there will be aggregators, reviews, a YouTube channel with a review of this thing, but my store will not be there just because I carried loot for paid advertising. This is true?

OR: - This is hypertrophied, but let's start with the fact that Google, Yandex are completely commercial organizations. This is business. And they want to get more out of their product. Of course, this industry, so as not to lie ... Previously, you saw two product ads (there were always three), and then you could make "organic", take it for free. There are 4 special accommodations, 5 at the top, the search has moved down. You can break through on commodity requests.
And keep in mind that the competition has grown in general. Remember, 5 years ago in some niche there were only 8 sites that generally gave those answers, and now there are 80 of them! And everyone is pushing the SEO or hiring normal SEO agencies.

SP: - How are you? What do you think of - normal?

OR: – Well, we generally have such a boutique format. There are 2 types of agencies on the market now: a conveyor (a boy sits somewhere, leads 20 projects, clicks buttons, puts down links), and there are those where you take 3-4 projects per person and really make a strategy and really understand this niche, like looking for a job. Let's get back to this. And indeed, "Yandex" squeezes out "organic", organic search, there is such a thing. But the fact that you can’t get traffic from there - no, it doesn’t work that way, otherwise my company would close.

Let's talk about Yandex and Google. It's funny that, if we talk about Google - this is a Western company, they have a ranking that is in America, England or Latin America - it is different from Russia. The funny thing is that Google is all anti-spam algorithms in India and Russia.

SP: - Because the most cunning, so to speak.

OR: - Yes. Because all the spam pressure (you can read it on the Burzhunet) comes from India, where a bunch of satellites are riveted, and comes from Russia. When I researched this, I made a publication - I asked people: “Why are you spamming?” They say: “Yes, because you can’t earn money offline. We want to drive sites to the top, drive to affiliate programs, drive to leads, because we want to work on the Internet and not depend on the factory. I don't want to work in a factory. But as? Pay big money for context? No. People learn SEO, try to make money from search, so they spam-spam-spam.

SP: – With the least cost of money and time.

OR: - Certainly! They see that there are people here who are ready to buy - naturally, they are ready to create websites where you can sell something. And Google rolls out all these spam algorithms here.

What is the difference? "Yandex" - it has a rather original ranking model. I will even say that it is more technologically advanced than Google in fact. Yandex uses the Matrixnet machine learning algorithm - you can read about it publicly, this is not some kind of closed technology; how "Matrixnet" works, you can read.

SP: – They announced, told and showed in their videos.

OR: - Yes Yes. "Matrixnet" is such a machine-learned formula for each query, which speeds up some of the factors (probably half) and adds a regular polynomial, that is, a set of A + B, B + C. Google still has the formula...

SP: - Plus, the assessor is still a person.

OR: – Yes, assessors just help to teach: “Matrixnet” is machine learning with a teacher. In order for Matrixnet to mark these 5 sites, the assessors will first teach it: this one is good, this one is bad, this one is very bad, this is spam, this is spam, this is a very cool site. "Matrixnet" understands that such sites have such signs, and then he learned on this training sample and goes to rank ordinary sites that are in the top (because the assessors taught him); and are already ranked.

In Google, the formula is still polynomial, a set: let's say, a factor such and such is multiplied by such and such a coefficient, plus a factor is multiplied by such and such a coefficient ... That is, in fact, if you take the sites that are in the first place, on the second and third - in the ranking, the first one has just a rating (a number - let's say 3045), the second - 3040, the third - 3000. In fact, the number of rankings is the same - as a result it will be a number, the rating of the site, but the fifth site rating 2143 (in millions, in my opinion, measured). In Google, the formula is still chosen this way: A + B, B + C. They were ideologically (I read their patents) against machine learning: so that the search does not become uncontrollable ... Yandex is smarter in terms of “laning machines”, it is more difficult to deceive it.

What drives Yandex? There are two types of sites where you can make money if you are not an agency. Any website comes to the agency - you move it, because there are tasks for which you are paid money. The first commercial site is a service site: you want to sell foam blocks, rolled metal, and an iPhone with three “burners”…

SP: - Aggregator of doctors - Dokdok.ru, for example.

OR: – By the way, my friend worked with Dokdok. I know how things are going, we made such aggregators. The aggregator is also a separate story, the third type of site. If you want to file an aggregator, you can also tell.

SP: – There are start-ups that are just very expensive, multi-million dollars, in dollars – Low Pi Vot, for example, Sir Wispo, where lawyers advise you, for example; and then you will like it - you can hire, they will represent your interests, otherwise they will advise you for free.

OR: - In Russia, there is Yustiva, the same project. I was just doing "seoshka". Good guys. A cool product, the guys are good, by the way, they make (Lydia), the affiliate program is cool. So, I did this project for them.

So what's the point? If you have a commercial site, the region is very important in Yandex. You go to Webmaster, a directory, register, put a real phone number - they will really call you and check. Failed - there will be no ranking. Set a real phone, real hours of operation - answer the dude who calls.

SP: Yes, they actually called me. I want to tell you, they called once. They call from 2GIS, they call about once a year, they call if everything is fine; from "Yandex" they called once.

OR: - You can score a bolt on 2GIS, and if Yandex says that there is no such company, you were mistaken, they can remove you from the directory, you will lose your position. In short, you make a directory, choose your region - the first thing you need to do. This thing is a real top for ranking.

SP: - For example, in my SecretDiscounter (not advertising) cashback, the region is all CIS. I have assigned the region "No region" (I set it on purpose).

OR: - Right. Aggregators do not have a region. This is a type of content aggregation. Yandex automatically understands that it is an aggregator. Yandex classifies sites: online libraries, e-commerce, articles, services... Yandex has a classifier inside - it understands that you are an aggregator and will set the region itself.

SP: - If I had a dry cleaner or a chain of dry cleaners in Moscow, I would have to put on “Russia. Moscow"?

OR: - “Russia” should never be played at all. “Russia” is a phantom region, it does not give any positives to the ranking, it only spoils everything.

Why collect keys?

SP: – But the city seems to be simply impossible?

OR: - No, no, you can: just put "Moscow", "Peter", mark. Save everything in the directory if you want to be in the top in Yandex. You file the regions, then pick up the keys (anything - through Wordstat, tips). We have a Russian Analytics product - you can come in, we have a trial (you can collect 10 keys for free).

SP: - And they gave me, by the way, there is a paid account there. But I rarely use it.

OR: - But in vain! Removes a lot of handwork.

SP: - But i can not. I have no time. I'm torn now between YouTube and cashback. Now more and more I will go into business, of course.

OR: - All right, we'll speed something up for you, unload it - no problem.

SP: – There will be no advertising of my book in this video, although it is selling well on my website.

OR: - Collect the key, do it for them, group the pages. Write a normal, meaningful text.

SP: - Both professional SEOs and many young guys are watching. Why do we collect keys?

OR: – What is the point? People are looking for something in the search. A person has some intention - to find something, to buy something. He expresses it in different words, so the page must take into account all these words that he can search for. “Buy an iPhone”, “iPhone price”, “iPhone” (in Russian, in English) - and this is all people type, you should be in the top for all these requests. Therefore, you go to the Yandex.Wordstat service (we will show it later on the screen so that everyone knows), drive in the key - it shows you everything that they are looking for with these keys.

Another very cool thing is when you start typing something in Yandex or Google - such prompts drop out. A very cool source of keywords, because there is the most trending.

SP: - In "Youtube", by the way, there is also such a thing.

OR: - They have theirs. By the way, we parsed YouTube in Russian Analytics - you can parse it.
SP: – in Russian Analytics?

OR: - Yes, you choose YouTube right there - it loads all the tips for you.

SP: - I did not know.

OR: At least in Latin America.

SP: - What am I doing on your service? I entered a list of keys from my website - well, how many of them are there, I wrote it manually - I just take positions on these keys through you. Can I parse hints from, say, my sphere?

OR: - I'll tell you now. There is a lot of software, I’ll tell you about Astro - it’s simple for beginners, we made it for all people, for business owners, and for hardcore IT people.

SP: - I'm a business owner. I'm too lazy to bother, I'm not a techie who will sit through these thousand settings.

OR: - You can go to hints. There are a lot of cool keys out there that people are looking for right now. Interestingly, Yandex has a very cool algorithm for hints (there are no fakes, no crooked hints, people really entered it): collect these tips from Wordstat (all keys), then group them (“blue iPhone”, “red iPhone "), or we can simply ...

SP: - Do you have such a thing - a clusterer?

OR: - You can just click the button - we will automatically build the site structure. I want to tell people so that they can use it with their own hands. It is not necessary to buy all this from us - it is cool, convenient from us, but someone wants to do it for free, with pens.

SP: I used to do it by hand...

OR: - It's just a hemorrhoid, it takes a lot of time. So, group, make a page for each group of words - write down “titles”, h1 ... Maybe later I will give a link to the knowledge base, where I wrote a bunch of articles on how to file everything. You make a normal site. You can do it in WordPress, on Tilda, on anything.

SP: - Yes, on ModX, on Joomla ...

OR: - "Jumlu" is not necessary - you will be hacked, hacked, filled with porn - 100%. On Joomla, everything is still not closed - all these vulnerabilities, "exploits" ...

SP: - On WordPress, if you don’t update plugins, they always break too.

OR: - It's true. This is just a human problem, and Joomla will simply break. So, you make a website, write cool content that really answers user questions.

SP: - Content - we are now talking about the article, about the text.

How to attract traffic now?

OR: - What's in Yandex? Regionality and good text, normal, structured text. Again, you ask: “What text should I write?” Open your top 10 (on your topic), look at competitors, see how much text, what keywords they use, headlines. I will give a link - two manuals, so as not to go into the "technical" a lot. We have a text analyzer (we do it at the New Technologies company): you just upload your key - you select a site, and our robots fly there - they pull it all out and give you a ready task for the text.

SP: - Do you mean that I do not manually set the terms of reference for the copywriter who writes the text?

OR: – You need to come in and see how many texts your competitors have, average them correctly, take into account all word forms. We robots fly into these sites, we can pull out the content zone, links, pieces of text, take all this into account as separate zones and give you a finished file that you give to the copywriter.

SP: - I saw such garbage in Gougetlinks: when they give their report, it shows how much text you have on this page, how much your competitors have, whether you have spam. Do you have about the same?

OR: – Yes, and we deliberately slaughtered so that we give such a TK, which will be a little under-spam, so that you do not fall under spam. There is a "Baden-Baden" filter, text filters in "Yandex" - sanctions, you can be punished. Let's talk about "chernukha", how people do it and how they are punished later.

You post the text, make normal content and, in principle, wait a month - in a good way, how to do it for an ordinary person.

SP: – Are we talking about Yandex now?

OR: - About Yandex, yes.

SP: - In the CIS, of course.

OR: - There is one simple hack for Google. If we are now talking about the commerce of an online store: on many pages there is no need for text at all, it does not need to be done - just a product card, a category. Online shopping is another story altogether! I wouldn't recommend doing them.

SP: – Are these alt descriptions in pictures?

OR: - Yes, that's all ... Then I'll give you a "pack" article - which ones can be given to subscribers so that they read. There by people for people. I have a SEO friend who can tell the complex about the simple - very well.

SP: “But simplicity requires more talent. It's just very hard to do.

OR: - I tried. I read a lot of reports at “confs”, when you tell some kind of “Decomposition of a thermal document matrix”, people think: “What is this? I went". When you write in the manuals “put the keys here”, “write like this” - this will be 70% of what a professional SEO will do. But it will work, so make normal content.
All SEOs are mad... “Make websites for people,” Yandex says at all conferences, “Fuck off, spam, don’t put links, don’t turn us into bots – we will find you and punish you anyway.” Actually it works. We wanted to talk with you about what should be done “in the long run”: is it worth spamming now, winding up the PF (how - I will also tell you now)? I believe that it is worth investing in content, in a normal product, so that the site really responds to user requests, so that a person can solve his problem there. And for each group of requests, make a lot of pages, and it will bring you traffic. The more pages, the more traffic.

SP: - There, you know, there is this: we can’t have more than one high-frequency key ... I’ll explain: a high-frequency key, for example, - you type in “buy an iPhone” and it turns out that 100 thousand a month in Yandex are looking for “buy an iPhone”; but if you fill in the request “buy a black iPhone 256 in the city of Zelenograd or Moscow”, for example, then there will be 6 requests per month, and this is already a low-frequency request. But here the rule applies when writing that you should, for example, insert one tweeter, two midranges, two woofers on such a piece of text ...

Is it worth it to deceive robots, low-frequency, high-frequency requests

OR: - I'll tell you how it works. We are talking about "Yandex", because if you win in "Yandex", then in "Google" you will only need to squeeze links. In fact, in Yandex, the issue is built in such a way that Yandex understands what your keyword is about. And, let's say, you can't promote "coffee maker" and "coffee grinder" on the same page, because the search engine understands that these are different things - for example, a coffee maker and a toaster. That is, you can’t do: “toaster”, “coffee makers” and “blenders” - you won’t promote all these three words on one page, because pages about toasters, blenders and coffee makers will give a better answer, Yandex will rank better. Therefore, if synonymous words speak about the same thing, all this can be promoted on one page. If they are different, promote them to different ones, do not struggle with the search.

SP: - In order not to confuse the robot simply.

OR: - Yes, do not try to fight the search - you still won't succeed, they are smarter. Previously, it was possible to push with texts, links and deceive the search. Now it's very difficult. Therefore, do this: write normal content, in commerce, look at how online stores are designed, other service sites - look at what types of content are on the page.
I had a case - we promoted concrete. Concrete, cement, etc.

SP: - I think it's a competitive niche. However, construction...

OR: - Competitive. Moreover, we filed a satellite (who wants to - can drop kupit-beton.ru, it is free, restore it - you will be in the top for concrete; we abandoned it, there were no clients), and it was in the top 30. We didn't deal with it. We say: "Let's get busy, do something." And we looked at what everyone had in the subject - tables (m-300, price, tonnage, etc.) on the page, but we didn’t have enough.

SP: - They say that search engines are very fond of tables.

OR: - They love it. Therefore, after you have written the text (or better before), analyze what type of content is there: who has pictures, who has tables, who has an application form ...

SP: - From the top 10, probably, the issue, but better - from the top 3.

OR: – It’s better to look in the top 10 of all, because it happens that M.Video is worth it not because it’s cool, but because it’s a simple brand. There may be an optimization bottom. Just a brand.

See what content is on the pages of competitors and add. Here we have added a table. In "Yandex", if something has changed, you can click to index immediately, add to the search.

SP: - Page break.

OR: – The next day we were in the top 7 with the top 30. The table was missing. When a company (customers) comes to us, we do a so-called content audit in the first month.

SP: Do you do it for free or is it paid?

OR: - This is part of the work on the first month. Paid, of course.

SP: So you sign a contract with him?

OR: - Yes, the contract, and in the contract there is always an audit in the first month. Although everyone is hissing at SEOs - no need for an audit, no need to look at the "technical" let us SEO. And what do you do then SEO, if the site is all in redirects, there is not enough content on the pages. Therefore, summarizing once again: regionality, texts, correct content and try to get links ... I don’t know - let your friends put it first, add yourself to directories, to directories. It would seem a trifle, but it works.

SP: - You are now saying - add to the directories ... "Yandex. Directory" is called. They say it's also important for Google to add to... Google Business, the company card.

Does Google still love links?

OR: - You have filed the site, added texts - now you need to advance in Google. How is Google different? Google is different because it loves links.

SP: - Still?

OR: - Still. This dominates the algorithm. You can see your sites that have a lot of traffic from Yandex. You have a website, for example, for an affiliate program.

SP: - Now I'll see how much we have from Yandex. I open my "Cashback", now let's see for a month, let's say. Here, look: from Google I have so much, and from Yandex I have three times less. Well, if with mobile "Yandex" ... In short, from "Google" I still have twice as much traffic.

OR: - I'll tell you why. Further.

Google still loves links. You have normal content - you need to add more links there. I recently performed - do you know the Aviasales company? They have a partner.

SP: - Yes, everyone knows them for their marketing, which used to be. But the founder died. It's a pity. He says he was a cool guy.

OR: - When he came to his performances (he used to do porn). In the “tower” he was at a performance when he was talking about “adult”. He was a very positive guy.
They have a Travelpayouts affiliate program that you can send to hotels and stuff.

SP: – But they are not only members of Travelpayouts, but also members of Admitad and other programs.

OR: – But they have their own affiliate program, where they aggregate other offers. I performed for them on Saturday.

SP: – Are you saying that Travelpayouts is a subsidiary of Aviasales.

OR: - Well, of course! It's official. For a long time. They do not hide it: they initially made an affiliate program for Aviasalo, and then connected offers - bookings and so on.

SP: By the way, there are few services there. They just gathered the tourism industry in one place.

OR: - You know, they connected very decently, a lot. They are developing very well. I performed for them on Saturday... Here's how to promote "travel" sites? You are looking - most likely you go to promote some article sites - reviews of something, “travel” ... I will give a link to the presentation (I will upload it to Google Drive).

SP: – Do you know the site vandrouki.ru, vandrouki.by? Vandroўki in the Belarusian language means travel. This site is cool. Katya and I are constantly taking some trips for our parents, for ourselves.

OR: - Yes, the topic is good - I take it the same way.

SP: - The theme is awesome. It turns out that they write that an awesome excursion to Turkey has appeared, for example, at a super price - 10 times cheaper than it really costs.

OR: “They are on my phone in the priority display on Facebook - I scroll them every morning. Yes, cool stuff.

So, I spoke for Travelpayouts too. Let's give this presentation - it's not a pity, the audience. And there what I am now telling is “step-by-step”, “step-by-step”, a complete manual on how to do it all.

SP: - That is, how to move a tourist site?

OR: - Tourist. But you can take and move the same site that reviews screwdrivers, merge on Admitad, Yandex.Market - wherever you want. That is, there is a methodology that I am talking about now. It also tells you how to beat Google so that you can sit down, take your topic, collect the keys, just change the content and do SEO for your topic, just SEO. We are now talking about "meat" topics.

On Google you need links. Where to get them is the third thing. There is a so-called crowdmarketing, when you take a team of dudes - they give you links on the forum, in LiveJournal. It works, but usually 50/50: either the site starts to come off ("Google" traffic - 0, and then it starts to come off a little - that means the links worked); You can do crowd marketing. It's great to share links. Do not regret writing to someone, do not be lazy: “And put a link on us, we have a cool article, for example, we will write about you!”

Links from powerful resources - literally, either one end-to-end (put from a powerful resource) or 5–10 links without an anchor is enough, just the brand name. Anchor is when there is “buy plastic windows”, anchorless is, for example, “here”, or “site”, or, for example, “www.site.ru”.

In fact, "here" and "here" are not fucking links. When SEOs tried to cheat, “here” and “here” are two anchors, “Yandex” “fluffed” them - in short, you don’t have to do that.

SP: - tut.by in Belarus site.

OR: - Yes I know. So, Google needs links. It is possible to buy on exchanges of links.

Bought links for $100.000

SP: - It used to be sape.ru, now it’s already “broken down” like that - garbage links from it. I bought the first time for "Cashback" and for other projects. Gougetlinks, for example, is cool there. But there are expensive links: I paid 2 rubles for a link there, I paid more - let's say, I paid from 900 rubles and more.

OR: - I knew a company that bought links for 6 million 800 thousand rubles. Too much. They got filtered. The webmasters said: “But we won’t shoot, we’re in trouble.” And they gave another two million for the webmasters to take off.

So when you're trying to buy a link somewhere, remember... You're being told, "You're buying a good link." Ask yourself the question: "Then who buys bad ones if you buy good ones in the same place"?

SP: - And how to determine the donor site - do we buy a link on it or not? I use... This guy from Krasnodar...

OR: - Alaich?

SP: - Alaich. I use Checktrast. But this is also not a panacea, it is still not a perfect tool.

OR: - It uses the API of some services, but I recommend Ahrefs.

SP: It's a pity they don't have a partner.

OR: - No. By the way, Russian guys.

SP: I'll paste the link below the video. I have proven services on my “shop”, on my website. I actually check them out. And there is you, for example (“ref” on you), and there is Ahrefs. Your competitor, is it?

OR: - They are somewhat different, they are more Western. Here they just analyze the links. You can buy a site and see its link - there is a domain rank. They speed up: url rank and domain rating - you can look at Ahrefs. And you just look at the site you want to install - its link history is normal. There are no splashes.

Can I promote without links in Yandex?

SP: Normal is gradual growth.

OR: “Everything began to be done very smoothly. Understand, if you do something abruptly, start twisting somewhere, these fluctuations, stuffing - the algorithm sees that something is wrong here, there is no such thing in a sample of a million sites. You are doing something wrong - he will pay attention: either he will simply kill the cheat, or he can ban him (impose filters). Therefore, according to the links, if we are talking about Google in Russia ...

SP: - In Yandex, do you not consider links at all?

OR: - In "Yandex" you can move forward without links at all. Yes, links work in Yandex, yes, anchor links work. If you know where to put it from, you have friends or others, your own sites, you can put it. Just do not put on top of each other, do not link a bunch of pages. Put it carefully - it will work.

Again. You can look at something in Gougetlinks, but this is already a “gray” method. If we are talking about “white” SEO, this is not “white” SEO, it is biased.

SP: – To be honest with the Gougetlinks company: I buy the first link through them so that they earn a commission, and then directly with the webmaster - always 20-30 percent cheaper.

OR: - They are fighting this well from the point of view of marketing: they say - through us you can write to the webmaster that he is obliged to remove (they will force him or throw him out).
Normal link price in Russia? How to choose the right donor?

SP: - Where is the guarantee that the link will not be removed?

OR: - When I was still working in a large agency, we pumped out the entire database of Seip, Gougetlinks (we found a “hole”, as you can download through the parameters) and just marked everything ourselves, built our own metric sometime. Therefore, technically, you can buy links from Gougetlinks, you can buy links from Miralinks. I recommend looking for links among partners or negotiating privately with sites, among friends, doing some kind of events where you need to put a link.

SP: – What is the normal price of a link in Russia? Well, in the CIS market.

OR: – In Russia, a good site will sell you some promotional publication for 3–5 thousand rubles – this is a good, powerful site. This is not a top, like Adme, vc.ru. Vc.ru only does special projects - it is a completely “white” company that does not trade links.

SP: - How then do we, for example, analyze links (you say in Ahrefs)? How to choose a donor? For example, from this site (from Belaya Gazeta). By the way, I bought a link from Belaya Gazeta - in Belarus there was a normal, respected newspaper. He paid two thousand rubles. Is he a normal donor or not? I checked this through Checktrast.

OR: - In general, if you want to buy something, the link should not be from some garbage dump (that this is some kind of shit site), it should be thematic or media.

SP: - Thematic - is it relevant to your topic?

OR: - That is, you are promoting metal rolling - “buy something DIY-construction”.

SP: - Not on a children's site?

OR: - No. If you can not thematic, buy from the general thematic, from the media. Media site: newspaper, news portal - buy from there. Under "Google" you will need links. But remember that if you sell this business in America, you will always be checked by auditors. Purchased links in exchanges are "gray" methods are considered all over the world. From the point of view of "white" methods, I do not recommend doing this. Make this product so that links are put on you.
We have a Russians Analytics product - a separate company, a cloud service where we sell position checks, collect keywords, and help SEOs and entrepreneurs. So they constantly write reviews on us, put referral links themselves. Here you are: you liked the service - you put a link. We grew up on Google, by the way, lately.

Life hack for Ahrefs

SP: - I also make money. I love sites where a partner. There is no affiliate program in Ahrefs.

OR: - They are! They are market leaders - they do not care.

SP: - Is this a Russian office?

OR: Is this a Russian office?

SP: – How much do they earn per month according to your estimates?

OR: - I think they definitely have about one million dollars a month. 100%! They may be public: where they are, registered in Singapore or in some jurisdiction. They should be publicly accountable. Did they go to IPO?

SP: – By the way, I’ll tell you a life hack: in “Achrefs” you won’t get anything for free. There is no "trial".

OR: - 7 days, in my opinion, there is, but you enter the card.

SP: - 7 days "trial", but you enter your card details and then you will be charged the amount for the month, for example. So, every 7 days you create a new “acc” and link a new virtual card. They issued, for example, a virtual card in Qiwi or WebMoney or in their bank, put a little money on it - you have a new acc. I even made a reservation: in my opinion, you don’t even need money for this virtual machine.

OR: - In my opinion, he “checks” the ruble, or you can throw a subdollar. This is a big problem in Russia: they don't want to pay us, although the product is good; do not want to pay dearly.

SP: “I didn’t pay you until you gave me a free account. I once used you, because I did not have money for it.

OR: - Time.

SP: - Money.

OR: - Did you have any money?

SP: - I think checking positions is a little expensive, but still you and other offices. Again, depending on which companies we are talking about, but for some young startups it is a little expensive. It’s easier for me already then manually for ten of my key queries ...

OR: - Really cheap. You can check everything for your positions for a thousand rubles a month - this is easy.

SP: – What if I have 10 requests?

OR: “Well, check them once a week, not every day, and that’s fine. Why do you need 10 thousand check requests?

SP: “Often I don’t want to check them. Once a month is enough for me.

OR: - But break them down into several projects, the most important ones; and then check once a month. All. Save money (but I didn’t say this, otherwise no one will pay money).
If you are engaged in SEO, especially for the West, Ahrefs is a “must-have” service, our competitors are very cool guys, a cool product. Pay that $89 a month and you'll forget about worrying about which link to buy. All the data is there.

Ahrefs also has a very cool thing where to get links from - I think it's called Content Explorer. It looks for all mentions of your brand in the content of other sites.

SP: Or a competitor.

OR: - Better than your site. He searches for all publications about you and says: “Here is just a text, no link was put.” You write directly to them: "Guys, can you mention?" And right in the finished article, a link is affixed to you.

SP: – I will explain (Oleg just talks quickly, from the point of view of a professional): we need a link, our task is to get a link, preferably for free. Someone wrote about us that yesterday the LudiPRO channel was seized by special forces during a gathering. Some media wrote, but they did not put a link to my channel, for example, or to my website. And with the help of Ahrefs, we analyzed what Forbes.ru wrote about us, but there is no link, and we write to them: “Guys, put a link, are you sorry or something”?

OR: Yes, yes, and it works! Ahrefs is a good thing. When you look at some donors, especially in the West, where links are expensive, you immediately evaluate who links to this site. We said that "Yandex" - texts, proper optimization, all these manuals; about Google links in Russia… But in Google, you can often also get good texts.

How to get free links

SP: - No links? Here Gubsky Sasha, a SEO specialist, asked you just a question: “Is it possible to promote a fresh site in Bourges, even a good one, without links at all? Will search engine traffic appear on it? Bourges - we mean the entire foreign Internet, let's say so.

OR: No, there will be no traffic.

SP: – Look, I have a website on WordPress. I think that it is awesome, well-made, even the translation was done by professional translators - cashbackhunter.com. Here the cashback rating goes on the main page, then there are all sorts of articles. This is a professional translation, there are pictures, there is an internal linking.

OR: It won't make it to the top, do you know why? Because you need about 12 times more content for this key, wang. Double word, and there is too little content for google.com - the content doesn't match.

SP: - The keys in my footer even go through.

OR: - It's hardcore, of course, okay.

SP: Do you know how many pages? I have about 25 pages in total here. But there is no traffic at all, not a single person! No one! Although awesome site.

OR: - I see, well done, infographic.

SP: - There is a rating of bookmakers. Again, the keys, the articles are different. Reviews even.
Is it possible to promote a fresh site without links in the West?

OR: - Let's stop there. In the western "Google" you will not go to the top without links. There is a google.com ranking - you are fighting with the whole world: if you want to be shown in English in all countries (in England, UK, Canada, Australia), - just forget it without links.

SP: – For you to understand, this site has… I will explain about cashback services (it’s easier for me to talk about them – I know): there are only 300 cashback services in the world, 200 of them are made in the CIS, in Russia. There are 300 in total in the world. There are 50 cashback rating sites in Russia, in the West mine is the fourth. My three competitors collect traffic of 400-500 thousand per month (organic). I have nothing, although the niche is not oversaturated.

OR: – You know, when you look at such sites (I just look at some pages with experience, I’ll tell you exactly why later): firstly, if you want to be on the English-speaking Internet, you need some basic links; the second is review articles.

How to get out at least somewhere if you don't have links yet? First, you take the top 10, see what they have. How to write content for the West: you watch the content of competitors, and your content should be larger, more detailed than at least one of the competitors. Everything, you will break through. There is a chance to break through. Plus links.

SP: - How many links do I need to get at least a little from the search engine?

OR: – How to determine? You go to Ahrefs, drive in your domain, take your competitors by links from the top, look at how many links they have.

SP: - They will have two thousand links.

OR: – Yes, and you start building link profit.

SP: – Do you know the site backlinko.com?

OR: - Yes, cool manuals. I recommend Backlinko - good content about backlinks. These manuals work, you can use - up-to-date information. Ahrefs also has good, good information on the blog - for example, how to write “title” for a wim, especially under the West. Look at Ahrefs, they have a good manual.

Let's talk a little before moving on to some cases, how this struggle of our Russian optimizers with Yandex and Google developed in general.

SP: - The share of "Yandex" and "Google" is now on the market.

OR: - 50 to 50 due to the fact that Google has a lot of "mobile". It used to be 55-45, 65-35. Now Google has leveled off. Due to "Android", of course, "mobile". They have Google Mobile First now index. Before (I started in 8th year).

SP: - I'm already old, in the 98th I can think. I am 36 years old. How much would you like?

OR: - I'm 30.

SP: - Also an oldfag. Did you use ICQ?

OR: - Certainly! In "ICQ" I also bought links.

SP: - I had a "six-digit", "five-digit" ... Links in "ICQ"?

OR: - Yes.

SP: – Just contacted link sellers?

OR: – There were two dudes who traded texts. We were still talking in ICQ back then. Then Skype came along and took it all away. So what happened in the eighth year?

In the sixth, I remember just starting to study it, search appeared, traffic appeared. You, like a megaoldfag, immediately realized that you were looking for ...

How did the struggle between SEOs and Google develop?

SP: - I still remember there was no search. There were chats, there were catalogs, there were “Kulichki” (Kulichki.com – there are websites, and chats, everything… You know, there were directories, “Rambler” was then. Then search engines appeared.

OR: - Yes, and people said that there is traffic in the search engine - you can make a website, it goes to the top. 10 people passed, the 11th did not know how to enter. What to do? They just added keys to the text, just keywords - and you left. It's just that there is such an algorithm in the search, called TF-IDF: how many keys do you have on the page and how rare is the word; if you have a lot of keys on the page, the search brought you up. And at one point (it was just about the 7th year) spammers practically won the search - they made doorways, that is, you took a book (“War and Peace”) in Word, inserted just words there (at least insert porn ), cut into pieces, poured, and it went to the top. Well, "Yandex" understood this, and "Google" too.

SP: - In the search, low-quality sites begin to appear in the top, some kind of garbage, purely with keywords.

OR: Yes, what people want. But they introduced a bunch of linguistic algorithms that these spam texts found and banned, they just threw it all away.

SP: - Well, the last iteration of this is Baden-Baden, probably Yandex.

OR: - Even "Snezhinsk" came out a long time ago.

SP: - There was also Minusinsk.

OR: - "Snezhinsk" - this is when the old algorithms were.

Then Yandex realized that links are a good signal for ranking, and began to give them a lot of weight. Naturally, the guys started drinking sape.ru and started selling links. There was an era of link promotion: who bought more, who spammed correctly, made some distributions, growth rate - he was on horseback.

SP: – Should the growth rate be gradual?

OR: - Well, of course! If you're growing links somewhere, think about how search thinks if you want to win at SEO. If you start to pile on, if you have a lot of money, start to uncover on the links - it will not work. The growth rate must be constant. You have to develop like a cool media, like a cool product that has a lot of money. Then the search sees that you are systematically growing. It can't be that you have a bunch of anchor links and no one recommends you just by the brand name.

SP: - About link clicks. Search engines say that it is not enough to put down a link, there must be transitions on it. Myth?

OR: - Not necessary. How many links are clicked on the Internet? How many links on your site get clicked? Look at the webvisor. Percent 3!

SP: - Such a life hack: in the same "Yandex.Metrica" ​​you can set up the transition from sites and external links; I'm looking at how many external links.

OR: – Do you want a life hack in Yandex.Metrica, how to see if the assessors come to you or not? Come in - in the "Site Transitions" there should be "Toloka", such a service.

SP: – irfametoloka.com.

OR: - Here you are - the assessors are sitting on this site.

SP: - 36 people.

OR: – 36 people have rated your site.

SP: It's bad that they are sitting. It would be better if they didn't come, right?

OR: - No. If the site is normal, they rate you as a good site. There is another myth that assessors can mark up your site, you can pay them to put “Good”. No, it's all nonsense. They train the algorithm, the algorithm ranks. Even if they are one assessor or five are bribed, nothing will work.

You have to (returning to links) grow organically. So you asked the question: “How to grow links ..”?

SP: - I asked about the "rushnye". I'll jump ahead a little. How much does a link in the West cost? I read in the Ahrefs reports yesterday...

OR: - Link in the West ... They are different: from 30-100 bucks to 5-10 thousand dollars.

SP: - Ahrefs wrote in its report (this was the 16th year, plus or minus) about $ 320 - the average price of a link. When you write to the webmaster - put a link to me - 82% simply do not answer, 8 say nothing. In short, out of 100%, 17% of webmasters, site owners, agree to put a link, and because of this, maybe the price is this - $ 320 (average link).

OR: – Yes, yes, yes, exactly. Let's just talk about the methods of getting links in the West. This is a purchase: you can still buy from the Indians - you write to Abwork (there is such an exchange of workers), you buy from the Indians for 20-30-50 dollars ...

SP: – Well, these are link farms.

OR: - Yes, these are farms, this is bullshit.

SP: So they don't need it anymore! More damage!

OR: Of course you shouldn't take it. There is an “outreach” when you write to publications: “Hi, we are such cool guys, we have such a review! Do you want to file the content, or put a link to the content. Take even part of the content!” (that's exactly what you're talking about).

There is a PBN building - this is the right Network block, when you build your satellite sites around the site and put either links to the site (you can still get traffic on them, place content there, for example). Well, there is the same crowd marketing, registration in directories - in America it works, there are live directories, like Yandex, like Yahoo. Must be used in combination. Link mass should be diverse. We are all talking about white hat SEO.

Returning to the link anti-spam: everyone started to put links. I was at a presentation, a conference, when Yandex said: “Guys, enough of this garbage toil. We will ban those who leave n links. Let's not just break the market, ban for one link. Someone says something like Yandex, fuck off, we know better. We want to do it."

The first wave of "Minusinsk" has passed - they were banned for links, the "miliki" were already itching. Passed the second wave - also banned. That is, "Yandex" and "Google" are able to find spam. And if they want, they will kill him. What did people do next? Yandex has found a new signal - user behavior on the site.

SP: – But it went three years ago, maybe two.

OR: - For four years they have been spinning for sure.

SP: - Yes, you are right.

OR: - So what? People made an exchange where you can tell a schoolboy to go to ...

SP: - "Uzerator.ru"?

OR: - Roma Morozov, if you are watching - hello! "Userator" is the most famous cheat service.

SP: - They say that their cell phone worked fine.

OR: - Yes, yes, until the SEO “pic-ups” were done. Well, what did they do? You go to the service, say: “Dear student, can you go to the request “buy an iPhone 11”, find me in the 50th place, click and poke something in the menu?” And there were a lot of such engaged users, they were spinning. They wound up, wound up, then people started en masse ...

SP: - Fairly effective.

OR: – Very efficient. It worked: the sites just got up in the top 1. Sites began to ban. In fact, I know how it was caught, but I won’t say it in public.

SP: Let me tell you how it was. I'm just very connected with sites that are very tracking where the traffic came from. Here, Google, for example, sees that you have a “User” open (into cookies) - browsers see which sites you have visited. Many, for example, some large structures (“Mail.ru”, for example), also collect a lot of information about users. They see that you very often go to Seosprint, Userator, VMRFast and other sites where there are paid tasks. And they understand that you are most likely just an ordinary bespectacled cheater. It's like one of the options.

OR: - Yes. But, in order not to break the ecosearch system, search engines will never ban you, because competitors can twist, right? Here's how to distinguish between what your competitors play and what you play yourself?

SP: - I don’t know how, now let’s discuss ... I have two videos on YouTube with a brow who makes fake ksivas. My average number of likes on any video (97%) is at least 95.

OR: - They screwed him, didn't they? Zadizili?

SP: - Yes. Here is 58%. There was almost no diz at all! And on the second - 60%. And I saw (the guys my subscribers reset for me) tasks on these exchanges: “Go to the video, look for about 12 seconds, put a disclaimer, write an angry comment and get out of there.” How to deal with this, you say like a pro? Because the site is exactly the same. Here's what a competitor did. What can I do?

OR: “But the Diz didn’t hurt you, did they?”

SP: - There is no disco.

OR: “They helped you, too.

SP: - Disses, likes and comments for YouTube are a signal. They reduced my viewing time.

OR: - Yandex came up with a very cool technology that unequivocally determines: did you twist and deceive the search yourself, or was your competitor twisted? In short, if behavioral (factors, - author's note) competitors are spinning you, you will not be banned. "Yandex" definitely knows: you're cool or a competitor. Modern cheaters know how you can twist yourself, but not get caught. But let's not talk just yet.

SP: – Are there such public services now or are they gone?

OR: - "User", what, does not work? The user is working. There are at least three services I know there - these are private cheats that do not burn (there are no tasks). I have at least three acquaintances of such services that only behavioral ones are promoted (private cheats are offered). You can reach the top with the site in a week for high-frequency queries, you will not be banned. You just need to know the people who offer.

SP: - "Userator", in general, it will be crappy - can you run into it?

OR: - Nothing, the “Userator” works if you know how to twist.

SP: But is the risk still high?

OR: - No. If you know the algorithm by which they are banned, “Userator” works. Rom, hello! Works.

SP: - No matter how I tried to let him down, he still says that he works. Apparently on good terms.

OR: - Yes. The product is good. Look, we're white-heading SEO. We do for clients, for corporations, and we respect search because search feeds us. Despite the fact that I can create a cheat test - take create a shit site, cheat, see how it works. Why do I need it? To see if my customers are spinning, is the search results on my topics spinning my customers? But we ourselves do not spin (I tell you honestly), because "do not spit in the well that feeds you."

Why don't you wind up behavioral factors (PF)?

SP: - Do you run any personal projects, private ones?

OR: - No! Do you know why? Because someday they will find and ban everything.

SP: – Cheat 10 years ago?

OR: - They will find and ban. And you're just really destroying the search ecosystem. Making fun of topics ... We had one odious dude here who spat on the entire market (insulted people, companies) - I promoted him to the top 1 at the request of "pedophiles", then he "rejoiced". He threatened me on Twitter - you can see my Twitter.

SP: - Tesak or what?

OR: - Yes, no ... Cleaver something ... This one from our market of seo-"barmaley", such a little boy was ... Well, we promoted him to the top 1 at the request of "pedophiles".

Well, look, how are the wraps? People twisted texts, twisted links, now they are twisting PF. Now is the era of cheating PF. Works at Google. Come on, if someone is interested, let's talk about how to learn algorithms, how to cheat.

SP: - Come on, of course.

How to find cheat algorithms?

OR: “Look, in Google, in America, there is legislation that they lay out patents. If Google wants to make some kind of feature that will work on user behavior, it is obliged to publish the algorithm in public. You go looking for Google's patent on ranking - you look at how it works, you look at the technology, some kind of "rank" that they made. Because the technologies that are used in search engines are publicly available - just no one is looking for them.

SP: – Is there some kind of secret part there, or is everything open at all?

OR: - If you roughly understand how the search works, understand how this "rank" was made - you know how to deceive it. I do not urge everyone to cheat and do dirty tricks.
Go look at the patent. Anti-spam algorithms for links, for example, there was a "trust-rank", "trancatered-rank", "browse-rank" (just for setting up browsers and prints), "click-rank" (when they are "page-rank ”the algorithm was improved) - it was all in public, everything could be read, they were obliged to post it. That is, about Google, you go looking for patents in Google - you read, study, understand how it works.

SP: - Not in Yandex?

OR: - "Yandex" is very private about its data, believes that this is correct, because it is a Russian search engine, and they will immediately start hammering and twisting.

SP: - But you already have an insider on your payroll?

OR: - No. There are guys working at Yandex who are quite fanatical, and we did not try to bribe. What's the point? "Yandex" also uploads documents, but "Yandex" makes scientific reports. Very smart guys work at Yandex, they speak at conferences.

SP: - I saw a lot of girls often.

OR: - Yes Yes Yes. Yandex is also a company that talks about technology. Yes, she will not tell the SEOs: “Look, we evaluate online stores like this, but if you ...”
Here's a life hack for you: who wants to - google the conference in Rio de Janeiro in 14th year; there is a document on how Yandex actually evaluates online stores (with screenshots). This document is not yet public.

SP: “So how are they going to google it?”

OR: – Yandex conference in Rio de Janeiro. And look who was doing Yandex search at that time.

SP: - The video will be watched.

OR: - Search. There is a document - in English, publicly, with screenshots - how Yandex evaluates a good site and a bad one.

SP: - Seek and find.

OR: Yes, this document can be googled. Documents about "Google", about the ranking of "Google" are merging in the West. If you are a member of some private communities, there are documents that follow from Google: a huge structure, many offices, documents are leaking - you can look. Recently, for example, an assessor's instruction on how to evaluate sites was leaked. Not the junk of the 15th year, but fresh.

SP: - Can be arranged. My Katya works at Google, they have a partner project called Apen (outsourced). She works there as an assessor. By the way, I helped her evaluate the relevance of the site, but now she evaluates the relevance of advertising, for example, on Instagram and Google.

OR: – Reverse engineers, SEOs usually look: “Oh, is this how they evaluate? So, this is where you can cheat! If it's a real minus/real plus answer, I'll adjust it to a real plus." This begins to play a role when you work in "black" topics. If you want, we can talk about chernukha, how chernukha works in search?

About Chernukha

SP: - It seems that you are done with the "white" SEO promotion.

OR: - Then we can talk about business. Let's talk about chernukha - everyone is interested!

SP: - In Google, link building is the main thing, I guess?

OR: - Yes, in Google - link building.

SP: – Is this the main factor today?

OR: - In the stupid chernukha - yes, in the smart - behavioral. There are a lot of people who can get links from some sites in some way, but cheating, correctly emulating user behavior - these are rather closed projects. Dial - "cheating behavioral factors." Well, you will get to Roma; but Roma practically does not turn on Google.

SP: - In "Google" to type or without a difference.

OR: - "Cheating behavioral". There will either be a scan, or how bad it is, or there will be a "User". Well, you won't find anything!

SP: - "Web form" and "User" ... But, "User" - yes, the only one.

OR: - “Web form” is ... Usually, if I don’t know projects in Runet, these are not projects. I don't hear them. For trolling. "User". Do you want a hint on how to cheat on some friend?

SP: - They bring Sergei Pavlovich, they will write "gay", right?

OR: “Then I won’t talk. You said it in vain, because they will wind you up now. But no! "Gay" is a stop word, you can't do it!

SP: - Well, I don't care, let them spin. You know, bad PR is also PR.

OR: - In short, if you want to troll someone - you take his first and last name, you take the floor, you play in the "Userator".

SP: - "Homosexual" then. Also on the top list.

OR: “[…] loves boys.”

SP: Or “raped a girl.”

OR: - These are stop words, the "hint" is filtered. We wrote "loves boys" and wound up.

SP: - And where can I find out, by the way, these stop words?

OR: – You can write “gay” or something like that… Do you know how porn hints in Yandex work? Type in a porn word, press Enter, and only then will the hints start showing up (to protect the kids).

There is no point in spinning. You take some dude you don't like, you take, say, "likes boys" or something... and you take it - you throw it into the "Userator", twist it, and it's real ...

SP: - And after how long will this search hint appear in the same "Yandex"?

OR: - If you put 3-4 mowers, it will appear in two days.

SP: – Dollars?

OR: - Yes, what? Rubles. There, a click costs a ruble or two.

How to spin hints? This doesn’t harm the search, I’m just telling you: in Wordstat you look at the particularity of the highest word after which you need to put, put the same amount - it will come out second, and if the click-bait heading (let’s say, “Loves boys” some) - people they start clicking themselves and wind up the top 1.

Let's say some company dumped you - you can wind it up. The scammers scammed you and put the article in the top 1. Just create a website with the domain “some-company-scammers.ru” and put a landing page there, wind up a hint that they are scammers (“ooh-dash-horns-and-hooves-scammers.ru”).

SP: And ask users to go to it when your site gives out?

OR: - Yes, you can just buy schoolchildren in the Userator. And so, when you want to punish someone: when people search by brand, see that they are scammers, and click - they go to your site. You can punish him like this forever - you won’t knock out this hint. It needs a competent SEO specialist who will calculate the weights and pay a lot to get her out of there.

Now they are spinning the PF. Question: Does the PF cheat work in America. Answer: yes, it works.

SP: - If we, for example, have good link exchanges (Miralinks, Gougetlinks). Drive, by the way, advertising - we are talking for the 10th time already.

OR: - Misha, pay, yes.

SP: I haven't seen this in the States. I googled before the show yesterday, the request was buy backlink, and I saw you know what? Hindu these farms at once. I immediately understood the price: $ 19 for 100 links - I immediately realized that this was a farm.

OR: - You can go in - you immediately go to the chat: “Hello, fo yu my friend, fo yu sir ...”, “Chip links fo yu, sir ...” Never work in CEO in the West with Indians - it will end badly.

SP: - What am I for? There are no normal link exchanges in the West?

OR: - No. And there is no cheating public services. If you want to spin something cool - expensive, where there is a lot of money - the public does not work there. You need to know the people who provide the power to cheat with bots, to cheat with real people.

SP: Look, the question is right away. I have a channel in Telegram - 22-23 thousand. I am very responsive - they treat me well; if I ask them tomorrow, “Guys, come here, here, here, do that, click in the search engine,” several thousand people (maybe five) will help me.

OR: – You will be in the top 1, most likely.

SP: - So, will the search engine accept what I cheat? But people are alive!

OR: – They have clean footprints, they have never participated in cheat services.

Footprints, fingerprints are called - they are clean. But if there is too much - the frequency of the request is 20, and you get 20 thousand - then the search engines can simply, like a surge of bots, cut it off, even if they are real people. We call it “Skype marketing” when we troll some hint: we drop it into the company’s chat (we have 80 people there) (puts a plus sign when someone clicks, another comes in an hour later) - you can wind up a hint. It works. Pretty clear algorithm.

Links in the West are either "white" (I told you how to make "white" links) ... PF in the West ... By the way, in Google, in my opinion, there is no official announcement about behavioral filters, that is, there was no demonstrative flogging yet. Not on that scale. The Russians haven't arrived yet.

SP: - For the text, too, was there an analogue of some kind?

OR: - Was. "Baden-Baden" for the text, "Minusinsk" - ...

SP: - But this is Yandex.

OR: - And in Google there was "Penguin" - this is for links, "Panda" - for texts, and now - manual sanctions.

About hacked sites

OR: - Here the channel is dedicated to ...

SP: - "Black" methods!

OR: - I'm the second, probably, who is not a criminal, came here.

SP: “Maybe the fifth.

OR: - By the fact that we work a lot in America ... Now my company is built like this: there are many clients in Russia, and about two years ago we launched, probably the only system in Russia, a department that works on international markets for SEO with organics . Well, we also do the context - Pay per click. We are currently working in Chile, Peru, Colombia (from South America), also Mexico, Canada, USA (this is understandable), Australia. And it is natural that when you come to some topics in America, you start to climb, then they either interfere with you ...

SP: - They are probably already busy already in the first place?

OR: – Dudes are trying to do something for you “black”-CEO; let's say you put some bad links, something else - you also use tools; Or they start to pout. And when we went into border topics that are not clear - “white” or “gray” ...

SP: - Where there is a lot of dough, you mean.

OR: - ... The rules of the game are changing. Let's take a look at how SEO works now, how topics are classified - this is important to understand.

There are “white” topics” (“white-head” topics, “white” SEO). We talked about the "white", there will be manuals too.

Next - "gray-head" when you buy links. You don't spam much; maybe stick the keys somewhere specially a little bit, spam the links.

And there is a blackhead. It's you who directly write spam keys, put links from any sites (hacked, not hacked), twist behavioral - this is a "black head".

There are topics that are also different:

- there are "white" themes; this is the sale of foam blocks, the sale of iPhones, the sale of carder vodka cool;
- there are "gray" topics that are on the verge; if about alcohol - delivery of "alcohol" at night ("gray" theme, illegal), it depends on the country - it is illegal in the USA, and legal in Brazil.

SP: Pharma, for example.

OR: – Pharma is definitely a “black” niche, blacker than black. It's 100%!
And now we need to combine: in some “white” topics, they only promote in a black way. Let's give an example: an essay.

SP: – Essays are abstracts, term papers?

OR: – Coursework, abstracts? A lot of money, a lot of rich students who want to smoke weed and drink in America, but not to study. You are not doing anything illegal. This is a legitimate topic. According to the rules of the institute, you can’t - well, ok. But the promotion of this topic is “black”, because the dough is in abundance. As soon as in some topic (for example, Payday Loans, these are microcredits in the USA) loot appears ... There, wealthy segments of the population began to receive loans, they were given money, and the dudes were divided into affiliate programs - I know that time, and I know the guys who used to then lily - 30-40 thousand sites were hacked there per day ...

SP: - Hacked? For what?

OR: – To put links from these sites.

SP: - So maybe just hack and put the 301st redirect - and that's it.

OR: - So it depends on the "black" strategy. You need to understand that there are “white” themes where they act using “black” methods, there are “white” ones where they use “gray” methods, and there is just the usual “black” topics where they act using “black” methods. Illegal casinos? Illegally! Banned in Russia. Open a link profile - everything from hacked sites will be there, everything from PBN and other things, betting will be there.

SP: - About hacked sites immediately question. I hacked, say, a site, put a link from it to my own; well, okay, she stood for a year or ten years, no one noticed her, but the site is relevant. For example, I have a car shop, and I received a link from a car site. Is this link generally considered normal in the eyes of the search engine or not?

OR: - Fine. Why not? And who knows that this link was after the hack? But search engines now already know how to detect hacked sites by indirect signs and then they can cancel your link. If it is clear that something irrelevant was uploaded to the wordpress, Google can give you an “alert” that “dude, the site has been hacked.” But if you did everything correctly, it stands under a slightly gray background in the footer of the main page conditionally correctly (of course, illegally), then it will stand for a long time, it will give ranking - this is all fine. From the point of view of the algorithm, it's fine.

SP: - And if there is an article about the Mercedes exhibition in Frankfurt, and a hacker hacks, for example, and places the third paragraph of the text there (there were two) and gives a link to my store: “And the sponsor of this exhibition is such a store” . Will it be ok?

OR: - Great. You can even go to the top if it's a cool magazine.

SP: Is this a relevant link?

OR: – This is a relevant link, perfectly normal.

SP: - Is it okay that this article is already three years old?

OR: - There is a nuance. You can just upload a new article, you can add it there. But they usually don't bother.

SP: – But if you upload a new one, the admins might notice it. Accordingly, they put down on the old ones, I think.

OR: - Yes, usually on the old ones or just in the technical areas of the site they put it as a sponsor - you write “sponsorship”.

SP: – So the admin will notice, or not?

OR: – There are different methods of linking. Usually smart hackers make it so that when you are logged in as an admin, these blocks are not visible. I have dealt with teams...

SP: Are they called "pies"?

OR: “Pies” is another thing. I'll tell you... I just consulted on one topic in America. The guys came incognito in the “Cart”: “Can I do text consulting? You will be responsible for big money. I say: “Yes. What is the topic? And for the sake of science, I'm interested to see how it all works for them. I consulted, looked at projects, how it works. And how did they progress in the subject? There were sites - let's take, for example, the topic of "pharma", let's analyze the "pharma". Here is a website for a medical clinic. It is hacked, and a page is uploaded where links to Viagra are posted.

SP: - They bring them to "shops", to their stores and partner ...

OR: - And there is already sold goods. It's called a "pie", like a puff: you have a bunch of pages, and one of them is like this, the "left" is tucked in. But she uses all the power of it. For example, some semi-governmental site.

SP: – Or gov, for example.

OR: - Well, gov is better ... Few people are so repulsed that they will put something else on gov. Although I know a dude who did not bet on such sites - even on some scientific, government ones, like us. But then he disappeared, I don't know where he is.

SP: - Flew into space.

OR: - Maybe yes.

Is it true that .gov and .edu domains carry more weight?

SP: – Just a question, since we started talking about it. Is it true that some sites in the eyes of the search engine have more weight because of the domain? Gov, for example, government agencies sites, and edu - education, all sorts of universities - they have a priori more weight than I put on com, on net, on org.

OR: - Well, if you take The New York Times and some seedy edu university, then, of course, The New York Times will weigh more.

SP: - Due to the untwisted, let's say, authority.

OR: - Yes, different parameters are considered, you need to understand. Let's think like a search. Search counts how? If an official US edu structure or government website referred to someone...

SP: – …so the site is good.

OR: – Yes, because it’s very difficult to put a link there just like that. So these are powerful links.

As our guys did, who ... Here's a life hack for you, how to get "white" links in America. They can arrange an Olympiad (tasks for students), give some kind of “sponsorship”. And you write to the university: “Who will write the best article about, for example, the real estate market in Thailand?” In some "tourism" - "hospitality" - "university" Yellowstone ... And you say: "Whoever does the best market survey, I give him 1000 dollars." First, you get 40 longreads of content, the university puts a link (because you're a student sponsor/you get the official link from edu), you get a bunch of content for 1000 bucks. These are "white hat" methods of linking.

SP: - And Brian Dean from Backlink, he also advises such a method - make some awesome infographics (well, there, the number of cars in such and such countries), some kind of value to people, very attractive to people. And he says - you will make it as easy as possible for other portals that want to conditionally steal it from you, make this task as easy as possible for everyone so that they share it officially; and at the bottom - the frame code of the infographic, so that they take this code from your site and embed it on their site. Thus, your infographic starts to appear on them - a backlink to you.

OR: – Quite right! We do it. Here's another cool thing. For example, we made a very cool animated 404 error on one site, and then wrote an article (just on the side) - “Top 10 coolest 404s”, posted examples there, a link to our site and sent it to an IT publication . They posted.

SP: - Well, you got confused - it took a lot of time.

OR: - We still programmed the cool design, and we say: “Let's outreach like this!” Either Misha Shakin suggested to us, or Sasha Tachalov.

SP: – Misha Shakin is also a SEO specialist.

OR: - Yes. Misha, hello! Contact him - one of the most old-timers and honest SEOs in Rus'.

Pharma, the most sophisticated strategies

OR: - If we talk about chernukha, how does it work in “black” topics (for example, “pharma”)? Let's talk about "pharma". I have a report "SEO strategies", how to do SEO strategies for complex projects? They say to me: “Where can I find SEO strategies?” I say: "You look at those people who sell drugs and weapons." There the margin is large - the most sophisticated methods. I even have slide cuts like they sell Xanax on Pinterest.
And what are they doing there? First, everything is in these "pies". Then - a bunch of hacked sites link to these sites: let's say you have a page on Viagra, you put 5 non-anchor links there, 5 - buy Viagra, Viagra for sale, etc. - anchor ...

SP: - And how to understand this - how many anchorless links should be (ratio)?

OR: - You go into the subject, you spend a lot of money. If competitors do not hide links (you can hide links so that you cannot find them, even “Achrefs” will not find them), you look at their distribution, how they grew (“Achrefs” retrospectively shows), or you do it on a whim.

SP: - Retrospectively - what do you mean?

OR: - A year ago, two, 36 months ago ...

You do it yourself, as if on a whim. Banned? Ah, too fast, sorry! Minus 5 thousand dollars. Made it slower - oh, there are a lot of anchors! Minus 5 thousand dollars (or 10).

SP: - That is, we copy successful competitors?

OR: - Certainly! In SEO, you need to go to competitors, copy everything and make it a little better ... Remember that in many topics everything has been done for you a long time ago. No need to make from scratch! No need to try to fight with the search, with competitors. Copy everything from a competitor! Better draw, rewrite, add some content, expand, add a couple of videos and create a little better links - that's it, you're in the top! Well, in most subjects.

And there are these links. Then you look: the donors who put these links ... and also links of hacked links to him ...

SP: - To give weight to donors?

OR: - The link funnel turns out like this. They put on these ones, they include links to donors, and then they refer, but on those distant ones - there is still a whole fan of links. This algorithm is called Truncated…

SP: - Like an inverted pyramid, a funnel.

OR: - There is even an algorithm for how it works in search - called Truncated Rank. He describes it: if they just put a link on you, it does not work, and if there is another link on that donor, then it will work. Search engines take this into account, and it works. You can do that.

SP: - I have "Cashback", for example. Tomorrow I created my Cashback Rating. If I from this rating (there are no links at all, not a single external link) I will put a link to my "Cashback". And that's it. No one refers to my rating, it is a brand new site. Are you saying it won't work? They don't take it into account, or what?

OR: - They will take into account. But when there are more links to your Cashback, it will transfer more weight there. This is one of the algorithms that either works or doesn't work in a formula. If the search engine sees - suspiciously, it may not take into account such donors.

Usually they pump whole floors of links. There are a lot of glued sites with 301 redirects of these drops. Some of these sites have been dropped. Some links are placed from the same "pies", hacked sites of various companies. Sometimes the company's website itself is hacked - they are brought to the top with links. That is, there are completely “black” methods of promotion.

I once found a site that included 8 domains. We tried to sort it out in Ahrefs for the sake of interest with the guys, and there are 300 thousand links, there is just some kind of crazy ring with a huge ... They are linked to each other. They tried to build a graph, program it - nothing happened. The dudes broke half the Internet, put links to 10 sites, and then they put buy Viagra from them - it was top 1 (this site).

SP: - Here is another question. There are nofollow-only links that don't take your site's weight and don't pass it on to whoever you're linking to; there is dofollow, when, for example, you buy a link somewhere on your site so that it is awesome in the eyes of the search engine - it must be dofollow (there should not be nofollow in the code).

OR: - Yes. You need to buy dofollow links, of course, put down dofollow links. But if nofollow links are placed on you, this dilutes the natural link profile well. Everything you do in search, when you match your competitors, you have to look natural. There should not be just anchors, there should not be “a bunch of links in one day”, there should not be a single “not a single nofollow link” - this does not happen. That is, nofollow links can also be placed, they also transmit some sort of ranking signals.

SP: “They are not that valuable, but let them be.

OR: “You don’t have to pay much for them, but let them be, it’s not bad.

SP: - On this site, which I showed you (“Verified Services”), if I refer to my services, I, of course, do not write nofollow, but if to third-party ones, then I prescribe. Yours says nofollow. Do you know why I prescribe? I do not mind! But even you have nofollow written on you. Well, it’s not like I’m holding down the weight of my site for you - this site has no weight yet, it’s new, I don’t mind. SEOs just told me (I don’t know if this is a myth or not): if I have a lot of follow-links from my ladies site, then this will blur my weight.

OR: - Yes, there is such a thing. But usually, when you have one page where you recommend everyone, the search understands that this is the partners page.

SP: - I even give a link to YouTube - I make it nofollow.

OR: - Yes. Do nofollow. Recommendation: better to do. Now, by the way, “Google” is such that if I bought a link from you, you can already mark it as “purchased”, “selling”, “engaged”.

SP: - Who will mark it? Search engine for yourself?

OR: - Google will soon introduce attributes where ... I just don’t remember, I read recently that you can say: “I was paid for this link, I put it.” And soon he will somewhat change the ecosystem of paid links - he will force publications to say that they are paid, and will probably give less weight.

SP: No, no one will speak! It's a fight against windmills. You just said about "black" methods. I use some in different subjects. 301 redirect. What am I taking? I buy 1000 domains, tens of thousands at times, ru-shny, and I stupidly put a 301 redirect from them. Who doesn’t know: when you go to some domain - there used to be some kind of pet store there (you used it there, for example, for 2 years), now the owner has died, abandoned the site or simply didn’t renew the domain - they took it away from him; I buy this domain. It has residual traffic, and I stupidly put a 301 web redirect on my resource from it. And it turns out that you go to that pet store, and you get directly to me. And if I interest you in something, then you can buy something from me.

I use such methods - it gives me a lot of traffic in some niches. It is not targeted for me, because I have one topic, but wankers, for example, or housewives come in - they are not targeted. However, I am completely satisfied with how it pays off. But! Question! Because of this, there is no traffic from SEO on my sites at all - am I hurting my search traffic with these actions?

About 301 redirect

OR: - Let's talk. My brother, for example, is engaged - a partner of the site from under the "Amazon", earns on the "Amazon" affiliate program. And there you know how they test such sites? Do you have some site, you bought it and glue it to another. How is it going guys? You go to the site, you are transferred to another - this is a redirect. The search engine will also be transferred.

SP: - It can still be through the frame, but I use the direct one.

OR: - It's better to configure it through the 301st on the server.

As it turns out? On this site, the Chinese could once sell Viagra, spam it with some Chinese hieroglyphs, for example ... It is bad in terms of reference.

SP: - Or by the key "porn", "hentai" it is displayed ...

OR: - Yes, "hentai", it displays all this dirt. You glue yourself - "Google" transfers 2-3 redirects.

SP: - And "Yandex" too.

OR: “And you stick all sorts of dirt on yourself.” Not all sites underestimate your ranking - you have to think that you are sticking. You can simply check all these sites on Ahrefs and decide whether to buy or not.

SP: - Then - armor and projectile! I will include one more site in the chain, that is, from all sorts of crappy sites where porn used to be, for example. I’ll just put a 301 redirect not on my main, white-fluffy site, but on some kind of gasket, and from it the 301 redirect is already on my main site. Will it help or not?

OR: - Will help. Now I’ll tell you how we make these topics different, we test links. I would not bet at all, I would make a second site. Are you monetizing with Adsense, probably, or what?

SP: - No, I'm talking about my Cashback. Maybe that's why I don't have enough search traffic?

OR: “By the way, maybe. It is not necessary to glue the reference like that. It's just that you have a lot of different link signals glued together, then glued to the site - the algorithm can get confused. But this has the advantage that you can always peel it off and look. I would just make a mirror (“landos”), glue it there, close it from search engines so that it doesn’t saffiliate with your site (disallow / install), upload all this traffic there and convert it there. You're getting referral traffic, right? Then, when you buy in bulk, I would check the parameters of the donor ...

How Search Engine Sanctions Work

SP: – Same thing with pop-unders, right? I don’t drive from a popunder, I try to get to my main site, I also drive to a separate landing. And you mean also to close it from the search engines, right?

OR: – Of course, to be non-affiliated. How do we do in such cases? We have our own instrument.

SP: – Is he saffiliated somehow explicitly? Will I notice it or not?

OR: - Just add two sites in the position, and they will be like this: each update - one site gets out, the other falls, one gets out, the other falls. This filter cannot be removed, you can only glue one site to another.

SP: - The question is not obvious, but many people know this: on a subdomain, if I make a gasket, or does it not make sense, just take a new domain?

OR: - Many sanctions work in many ways and in different ways - semi-ban, ban ... Ban - this is when you are banned, and you will never come out at all. Sanctions are when you are demoted, thrown out for the top 30. Here you have someone's website, you were demoted, and you did not know why. If you twist under the domain with behavioral ones, everything else will fly in.

SP: – Both domains and subdomains?

OR: – You can ruin everything for yourself, so it’s better to unstick it, make it separately, buy a domain. How we do. We do…

SP: - Domain, if you buy with cashback, buy on "Reg.ru" - normal prices, buy with "Cashback" through my website.

OR: – By the way, yes, a normal domain registrar.

SP: - There is also such a subtlety at Reg.ru. I didn’t know, and I bought a hundred domains, and I’m waiting for a cashback for a hundred domains ... And they have it to get a cashback from Reg.ru (a domain costs, for example, 3 dollars - and you get a cashback dollar, 30% is normal loot), one payment - one domain. They have such conditions.

OR: – What did we do? We wrote our own software: you take all these domains ... For each domain, we look at all links through services (such as "Achrefsa") and in the anchors of these links we look for "Chinese", porn - we just give you a map of what these domains have (attention!) found some shit in the anchor list (don't buy this!). We check it automatically. Then you just choose, filter: these ones with a clean anchor list, with cool parameters - they will give you positions, and you buy.

SP: – Do you do this as part of your Russian Analytics service?

OR: - Yes. These are PBN tools - at the bottom select "Check Donor".

SP: I don't know so much about your service! I only use position capture.

OR: - Video. Recorded the coolest videos! You go and have a look.

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