{"id":54069,"date":"2019-12-17T00:00:00","date_gmt":"2019-12-16T21:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/blog\/blog_prohoster\/kubernetes-eto-novyj-linux-intervyu-s-pavlom-selivanovym"},"modified":"2020-02-18T14:02:02","modified_gmt":"2020-02-18T11:02:02","slug":"kubernetes-eto-novyj-linux-intervyu-s-pavlom-selivanovym","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/et\/blog\/administrirovanie\/kubernetes-eto-novyj-linux-intervyu-s-pavlom-selivanovym","title":{"rendered":"Kas Kubernetes on uus Linux? Intervjuu Pavel Selivanoviga","gt_translate_keys":[{"key":"rendered","format":"text"}]},"content":{"rendered":"

\r\n \"M\u00e4ngi\r\n
<\/div>\r\n <\/div><\/center>
\nT\u00f5lge:
\nAzat Khadiev: Tere. Minu nimi on Azat Khadiev. Olen Mail.ru Cloud Solutionsi PaaS suunaga arendaja. Minu k\u00f5rval on Pavel Selivanov ettev\u00f5ttest Southbridge. Oleme DevOpsDays konverentsil. Temal on siin ettekanne, kuidas Kubernetesega saab ehitada DevOps, kuid t\u00f5en\u00e4oliselt ei \u00f5nnestu teil see. Miks on teema nii s\u00fcnge?
\n<\/a><\/noindex>
\nPavel Selivanov: Tegelikult ei ole see s\u00fcnge teema. See r\u00e4\u00e4gib sellest, et paljusid probleeme meie kogukonnas p\u00fc\u00fcame lahendada tehnoloogiate abil. Ja me p\u00fc\u00fcame neid lahendada pigem \u00fchek\u00fclgselt. Kubernetes on sama asi \u2014 see on asi, mille eest vastutavad, v\u00f5ib \u00f6elda, Ops. Aga meil on suurep\u00e4rane m\u00f5isted DevOps insener. Kubernetesest vastutab DevOps insener. Sellegipoolest\u2026 T\u00fc\u00fcpiliselt teete te Kubernetes, kuid Dev mehed pole \u00fcldse kursis, mis iganes Kubernetesest ja kuidas see t\u00f6\u00f6tab \u2014 ja k\u00f5ik nende jaoks toimub t\u00e4pselt sama moodi. Ja see on vaatamata sellele, et Kubernetes sisaldab valmis lahendusi ja t\u00f6\u00f6riistu, millega see tehnoloogia suudaks laiendada DevOps l\u00e4henemist ja suhtlemist Dev ja Opsi vahel. Me kasutame seda v\u00f5imalust v\u00e4ga v\u00e4he. T\u00e4nu sellele, et me t\u00f5stame isegi praegused struktuurid k\u00f5igesse sellesse DevOps t\u00f6\u00f6riistadesse \u2014 Docker, Kubernetes, pilved jne \u2014 s\u00fcvendame seda olukorda veelgi. Ja t\u00f6\u00f6riistu hakkame kasutama mitte nii, nagu nad on kavandatud. Ja k\u00f5ikide nende tehnoloogiate \u00fcmber ehitatakse lihtsalt hirmu\u00e4ratavad kinnituslaudade s\u00fcsteemid. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Arusaadav. Tunnetan, et teema on ulatuslik. Kuidas sa arvad, mis on k\u00f5ige levinum probleem ettev\u00f5tetes praegu? Kubernetesega.<\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Kubernetesega on k\u00f5ige levinum probleem \u2014 kompetentside puudumine. IT-s on see levinud probleem. Alati on spetsialistidest puudu. Alati on kompetentsidest puudu. Ja praegu on Kubernetesega kompetentsidest puudu. Ja samal ajal on turul v\u00e4ga v\u00e4he t\u00e4iesti valmis lahendusi, mis v\u00f5imaldaksid saada endale Kubernetes, kuid samal ajal pole vajalikku kompetentsi. Need, mis olemas on, tekitavad k\u00f5ik mingisuguseid k\u00fcsimusi. Alati oleme Kubernetesega inimest otsimas, kes sellest aru saaks. P\u00fc\u00fcame arendust selle alla t\u00f5mmata. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Arvestades praegust IT-sektori t\u00f6\u00f6tajate puudust. Mis on alati olemas olnud ja on praegu. Kuidas sa arvad, kuidas sellistes tingimustes elada? Millised on elu n\u00e4pun\u00e4ited? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: N\u00e4pun\u00e4ited. Esiteks, pilveteenuste vaatenurgast n\u00e4eb elu n\u00e4pun\u00e4ide v\u00e4lja selliselt \u2014 kuidas oleks, kui te annate meile osa oma p\u00e4devustest. Ja me v\u00f5tame need endale. Ja tegeleme nende ka. Ja see on k\u00f5ik hea. V\u00e4lja arvatud see, et on oluline m\u00f5ista, et need, kes seda kasutavad\u2026 Tegelikult on see suurep\u00e4rane hetk\u2026 Kuid on oluline m\u00f5ista, et andes osa oma p\u00e4devustest kuhugi pilve v\u00f5i teenusepakkujale, saame vastutasuks universaalse lahenduse. \u00dcldiselt, meil on andmebaas, mis t\u00e4idab v\u00e4ga spetsiifilisi asju, ja see on olnud v\u00e4ga spetsiifiliselt seadistatud. Andes selle andmebaasi pilve, saame me loomulikult vallandada administraatori, kes varem hallas andmebaasi klastreid \u2014 sama Amazon v\u00f5i Google teeb seda meie eest. Kuid samas ei luba sama Amazon v\u00f5i Google meil t\u00e4pselt seadistada meie andmebaasi. Suured projektid, suured ettev\u00f5tted \u2014 nad j\u00f5uavad igal juhul etappi, kus nad kasutavad pilvelahendusi, ja siis naasevad nad kindlasti tagasi, et tuua p\u00e4devused tagasi endale, kuna on vajalik spetsiifilisem l\u00e4henemine.<\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Universaalsed lahendused \u2014 kas need on halvad v\u00f5i saab nende p\u00f5hjal rohkem \u00fcles ehitada? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Ei, universaalsed lahendused \u2014 see ei ole kindlasti halb. Universaalsed lahendused \u2014 need on head. Lihtsalt universaalsed lahendused \u2026 on universaalsed. Siin on oluline m\u00f5ista. See on nagu v\u00f5tta \u00fcldine skript\u2026 Kui sa suudad selle \u00fcldise skripti, \u00fcldise rakenduse \u00fcmber ehitada kogu firma t\u00f6\u00f6logika \u2014 siis see on lahe. Aga kui t\u00f6\u00f6logika on teine, kuid sa v\u00f5tad selle universaalse lahenduse, universaalse skripti \u2014 ja hakkad, nagu \u00f6\u00f6kull gloobusele, seda kohandama, siis see on halb. Universalisms iseenesest ei ole halb. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Kui sul see administraator juba t\u00f6\u00f6tab, ei ole k\u00fcsimus tema vallandamises. Ta suudab lihtsalt teha rohkem. <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Jah, v\u00f5tta temalt rutiin ja anda see kuskile kellelegi, et seda seal teha. See on kindlasti hea l\u00e4henemine. Oluline k\u00fcsimus on, kas see standardlahendus sobib konkreetse juhtumi jaoks. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadievi: Lihtsalt oma kogemuse p\u00f5hjal n\u00e4en, et paljud ettev\u00f5tted tegelevad sama asja seadistamisega. Nad seadistavad Kubernetes klastrit ja m\u00f5tlevad selle skaleerimisele. Ja k\u00f5ik need toimingud on v\u00e4ga korduvad. <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Jah, kindlasti. Eriti arvestades, et kui me r\u00e4\u00e4gime konkreetselt Kubernetesest, siis on hetkel turul t\u00f5eliselt v\u00e4he s\u00fcgavaid ja h\u00e4id teadmisi. Kubernetes on nii suur konstruktor, et kui te toote selle ettev\u00f5ttesse, olge valmis v\u00f5tma endaga kaasas insener, kes tegeleb sellega t\u00e4iskohaga. Ja see on kallis. Ja sellise inseneri leidmine on veel proovimist v\u00e4\u00e4rt. Kui ma r\u00e4\u00e4gin enda kohta, siis ma ei armasta v\u00e4ga cloud lahendusi, kuna ma m\u00f5istan piisavalt h\u00e4sti ja s\u00fcgavalt, kuidas Kubernetes t\u00f6\u00f6tab. Ja tihti puudub mulle just cloud'is m\u00f5ni funktsionaalsus, mida ma soovin \u2014 ja mulle \u00f6eldakse, et \u201eEi, ei ole v\u00f5imalik.\u201d Noh, sellisel juhul vabandust, aga ma saan paremini, kui cloud. Samas, kui teil ei ole t\u00e4iskohaga inseneri, ei ole soovi maksta selle inseneri eest, kes juhib Kubernetes't ja kellele te pidevalt maksate palju raha, et ta lihtsalt katsetaks, siis on cloud lihtsalt suurep\u00e4rane lahendus. Sest v\u00e4hemalt seal t\u00f6\u00f6tavad kutid, keda teenusepakkuja on juba v\u00e4rvanud. Ja nad teavad, mis nad teevad. Ja need p\u00f5hiasjad, mida teil igap\u00e4evaselt vaja on, on seal olemas.<\/p>\n

Azat Khadievi: Mida sa arvad Kubernetes'e praegusest seisundist? Mis selle saab viis ja k\u00fcmme aastat p\u00e4rast?<\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Hea k\u00fcsimus. Ma tean lihtsalt, mis meie kogukonnas selle kohta toimub. M\u00f5ned inimesed usuvad, et peale Kubernetes ei j\u00e4\u00e4 muud. See olukord, mis Linuxidega juba ammu juhtus. St v\u00e4ljaspool Linuxit on inimesi, kes elavad BSD-l, t\u00f5en\u00e4oliselt on neil v\u00e4ga spetsiifilised \u00fclesanded. On inimesi, kes t\u00f6\u00f6tavad Windowsi peal \u2014 Windows serverid \u2014 t\u00f5en\u00e4oliselt on neil samuti spetsiifilised \u00fclesanded, v\u00f5i on neil lihtsalt oskused selles valdkonnas ja nad ei ole valmis sealt minema. Igal juhul on meie valdkonnas standard Linux. On arvamus, et Kubernetes muutub selliseks de facto standardiks, ja peale Kubernetes ei tule midagi muud. Kubernetes haldab mitte ainult rakendusi, nende juurutamist, skaleerimist. Tegelikult absoluutselt k\u00f5ike. Praegu juba k\u00fcsitakse: \u201eKas Kubernetesesse on v\u00f5imalik panna andmebaas?\u201d Tavalise vastusena r\u00e4\u00e4gin, et siin ei ole k\u00fcsimus Kuberneteses, vaid Dockeris. Kui olete valmis, et teie andmebaas t\u00f6\u00f6tab konteinerites, siis kuidas see t\u00f6\u00f6tab. Vastatakse: \u201eEi-ei-ei, oota. Konteineritesse ei ole vaja. Peab olema Kubernetes. Me \u00fchendame selle noodiga. St k\u00f5ik toimub nagu meil on praegu, ainult seda haldab Kubernetes.\u201d Ja see on tegelikult hea idee. Kubernetes on just see asi, kuhu saab tulla ettev\u00f5ttesse, kui ettev\u00f5ttes on Kubernetes ja selle peal on \u00fclesehitatud protsessid, siis inimesele, kes selles asjaosaga kursis on \u2014 piisab paar p\u00e4eva vaatamisest, et \u00f6elda: \u201eOlen valmis teid t\u00e4ielikult toetama. Ma m\u00f5istsin, kuidas teil k\u00f5ik t\u00f6\u00f6tab.\u201d Erinevalt l\u00e4henemistest, kus ei ole Kubernetes, - siin on \u00fcks jalgpalli t\u00f6\u00f6deldud, seal on teine jalgpalli t\u00f6\u00f6deldud. Siin on Ansible, siin on Terraform. K\u00f5ik on kellegi poolt kirjutatud, ja sellega tegelemiseks on vaja poolt aastat. Nii et kas Kubernetesest saab de facto standard, ma ei tea. Praegu n\u00e4eb ta v\u00e4lja palju ambitsioonikam ja enesekindlam kui lahendused, mis tema \u00fcmber on. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: No, v\u00f5rdlus Linuxiga on piisavalt julge. See t\u00f6\u00f6tab \u00fche masina peal \u2014 ja k\u00f5ik. Aga Kubernetes t\u00f6\u00f6tab paljude masinate peal. Koheselt tekib miljon variatsiooni, p\u00f5hjuseid. Jah, see on julge. Lihtsalt kui arvesse v\u00f5tta, et sellel paradigmal on konkurente. N\u00e4iteks, Serverless. Kas Kubernetes on selliste konkurentide t\u00f5ttu ohus? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Serverless\u2026 (laughs) Serverless \u2014 we still understand that serverilt<\/a> it exists. I recently heard a presentation on this matter. The speaker mentioned that servers do exist \u2014 and that\u2019s the cloud. But we must always understand that in the cloud, there are also servers. Real hardware servers, racks, and they are installed somewhere. This is the cloud. Above this exists Serverless, where serverid<\/a> there are 'none'. So, does Serverless Kubernetes prevail? It seems to me that Serverless will move into Kubernetes. For providers offering Serverless, Kubernetes is a very convenient platform for this. Yes, perhaps at some point we will stop talking about Kubernetes in general, as a standard for business application development. But deep down, providers and engineers will still have Kubernetes, where all of this will be implemented. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiyev: A slightly different topic. There's a concept of a fullstack engineer. What do you think about them? Do they actually exist? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Um\u2026 Fullstack engineer\u2026 Well, it seems to me that we should distinguish these aspects from one another\u2026 You know, there\u2019s such a thing as T-shaped people. Are such individuals needed in today's industry? Yes, definitely. We need people who have a broad perspective, but at the same time, they are specialists in their narrow field. And here, a Fullstack engineer is the same \u2014 a person who does everything. Starting from frontend development, testing, backend, servers, and everything else. I don't believe that in a large company, one person can handle this without having narrow specializations in each area. But simply having a narrow specialization, like not knowing anything about what's happening around it \u2014 that also doesn't work in the modern world. So here, I would say... I would discard the term Fullstack. We need engineers for sure. We need DevOps. I feel that we will soon reassess this point. And they will not be needed. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiyev: Can you elaborate? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Minu arvates j\u00f5uame me t\u00f6\u00f6stuses selleni, et need Dev ja Ops rollid kaovad varsti. Kui meil on vaja spetsialiste ja me otsime... On vaja sellist arengut, on vaja selliseid administraatoreid, n\u00fc\u00fcd on meil DevOps-insenere \u2014 n\u00fc\u00fcd lisanduvad meile ka tootmisinsenerid, SRE-insenerid. Kuigi tegelikult, mida me vajame, on insenerid, keda me tahame t\u00f6\u00f6le v\u00f5tta. Taust ei ole p\u00f5him\u00f5tteliselt oluline. Sest... N\u00e4iteks \u00fctleb SRE, et infrastruktuuri probleemid on alati tarkvaraga seotud. Aga miks... Vaatame arendajaid \u2014 arvestades, et arendaja on insener \u2014 paneme nad tugiosakonda ja nad lahendavad need probleemid t\u00e4pselt samamoodi nagu nad lahendavad \u00e4riprobleeme koodi ja inseneeria abil. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Ja selle nurga alt... Kuidas selliseid insenere intervjueerida? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Oh, that's a good question. It probably goes beyond what I understand in this life. But I would just give an example. It doesn't relate to the interview. It's about our education system in Russia. In IT, we know that our education system in Russia for the IT world is very outdated; it's not what it should be. I'm generally speaking about vast Russia \u2014 and what's happening there. People graduate who are absolutely unprepared to go into web development or a tech company right after graduation. And that's a problem. We teach them some strange things, even though we should be teaching them to develop for Android and iOS, how to use Git, and all of that. In reality, it seems like not. University is such a time when, for the most part, parents pay for you. For your whole life. And you can dedicate five years of your life to studying in depth. And studying all this T-shaped. When you can learn in university what a version control system is, what development patterns exist, how to test everything, what databases and load balancers there are. And when you start working, you begin to specialize in a specific area. And this way, we produce engineers. Our education system in Russia is much closer to this truth than we think. We get a good mathematical foundation, a good algorithmic background, we get some understanding of programming languages. And about the interview, it seems to me something close to this. We need to interview engineers. We need the top part of the T in T-shaped. Because the vertical line of the T will be acquired. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiyev: Yes, interesting. For five years after university, I thought my education was somewhat strange and inadequate. But then, as I worked, when tasks became deeper and projects larger, I realized that no, I was taught very important things. Pavel, thank you. It was very interesting to listen to your answers. Let's hear your presentation. <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Thank you.
\n
Allikas: habr.com<\/a><\/p>","protected":false,"gt_translate_keys":[{"key":"rendered","format":"html"}]},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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