{"id":54069,"date":"2019-12-17T00:00:00","date_gmt":"2019-12-16T21:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/blog\/blog_prohoster\/kubernetes-eto-novyj-linux-intervyu-s-pavlom-selivanovym"},"modified":"2020-02-18T14:02:02","modified_gmt":"2020-02-18T11:02:02","slug":"kubernetes-eto-novyj-linux-intervyu-s-pavlom-selivanovym","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/no\/blog\/administrirovanie\/kubernetes-eto-novyj-linux-intervyu-s-pavlom-selivanovym","title":{"rendered":"Kubernetes \u2013 er det et nytt Linux? Intervju med Pavel Selivanov","gt_translate_keys":[{"key":"rendered","format":"text"}]},"content":{"rendered":"

\r\n \"Spill\r\n
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\nTranskripsjon:
\nAzat Khadiyev: Hei. Jeg heter Azat Khadiyev. Jeg er utvikler innen PaaS-omr\u00e5det hos Mail.ru Cloud Solutions. Med meg her er Pavel Selivanov fra selskapet Southbridge. Vi befinner oss p\u00e5 konferansen DevOpsDays. Han skal holde en presentasjon om hva man kan bygge DevOps med Kubernetes, men mest sannsynlig vil det ikke lykkes. Hvorfor et s\u00e5 dystert tema?
\n<\/a><\/noindex>
\nPavel Selivanov: Det er faktisk ikke et dystert tema. Det handler om at mange problemer i samfunnet v\u00e5rt pr\u00f8ver vi \u00e5 l\u00f8se med teknologi. Og vi pr\u00f8ver dessuten \u00e5 l\u00f8se det p\u00e5 en ensidig m\u00e5te ved hjelp av teknologi. Kubernetes er det samme \u2013 det er noe som man kan si er ansvarlig for Ops. Men vi har et str\u00e5lende begrep som er DevOps-ingeni\u00f8r. Den som er ansvarlig for Kubernetes er DevOps-ingeni\u00f8ren. Samtidig\u2026 Kanskje dere lager Kubernetes, mens utviklerne ikke har peiling p\u00e5 hele dette Kubernetes, de vet ikke hva det lar deg gj\u00f8re \u2013 og alt for dem fungerer akkurat som f\u00f8r. Og det til tross for at Kubernetes inneholder ferdige l\u00f8sninger, verkt\u00f8y for \u00e5 kunne strekke denne DevOps-tiln\u00e6rmingen, kommunikasjonen mellom Dev og Ops. Vi bruker veldig lite av denne muligheten. P\u00e5 grunn av at vi til og med oversetter n\u00e5v\u00e6rende strukturer til alle disse DevOps-verkt\u00f8yene \u2013 Docker, Kubernetes, skyene og s\u00e5 videre \u2013 forverrer vi situasjonen enda mer. Og verkt\u00f8yene begynn \u00e5 bli brukt p\u00e5 en annen m\u00e5te enn de var ment. Og rundt all denne teknologien bygges det bare skremmende krabater. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiyev: Jeg forst\u00e5r. Man f\u00f8ler at temaet er omfattende. Hva mener du er det mest utbredte problemet blant selskaper n\u00e5? Med Kubernetes.<\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Med Kubernetes er det mest utbredte problemet mangel p\u00e5 kompetanse. I IT er dette et vanlig problem. Man mangler alltid spesialister. Man mangler alltid kompetanse. Og n\u00e5 er det ogs\u00e5 lite kompetanse p\u00e5 Kubernetes. Og selv de hundre prosent ferdige l\u00f8sningene p\u00e5 markedet som ville tillate en \u00e5 f\u00e5 Kubernetes, men uten \u00e5 ha den n\u00f8dvendige kompetansen, er det \u00e5penbart for lite av. Og de som finnes, skaper alle sp\u00f8rsm\u00e5l. Vi er konstant p\u00e5 jakt etter folk som er dyktige med Kubernetes. Vi pr\u00f8ver \u00e5 trekke utvikling under dette. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Considering the current staff shortage in IT, which has always existed and still persists, how do you think one should navigate these conditions? What life hacks are there? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Life hacks. Firstly, from the perspective of clouds, the life hack looks like this \u2014 let's hand over part of your competencies to us. We will take them on and handle them internally. And that\u2019s fine. Except it's important for those who use it to understand\u2026 Actually, it\u2019s a wonderful moment\u2026 But it's essential to know that by giving part of your competencies to a cloud or provider, we receive a standardized solution in return. Roughly speaking, we have a database that performs very specific functions, and it was finely tuned. By moving this database to the cloud, we can certainly fire the admin who used to manage the database clusters \u2014 the likes of Amazon or Google will do this for us. But at the same time, Amazon or Google won't allow us to finely tune our database. Large projects and companies ultimately find that at some point in their evolution, they use cloud solutions, but they invariably revert to reclaiming those competencies because more specificity is required.<\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Are universal solutions bad, or can we build more on their basis? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: No, universal solutions are definitely not bad. Universal solutions are good. They are just universal. It\u2019s important to understand this. It\u2019s like taking a general script... If you can build all the logic of the company around this general script, this general application, then that\u2019s cool. But if the logic of the work is different, and you take this universal solution, this universal script \u2014 and start forcing it into your case, that\u2019s bad. There\u2019s nothing wrong with universalism itself. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: If this admin is already working for you, it\u2019s not about firing him. He will simply be able to do more. <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Yes, taking away his routine and handing it over to someone else to handle it there is undoubtedly a good approach. The important point is whether this standard solution fits the specific case. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiyev: Based on my experience, I see that many companies are engaged in the same activities. They set up a Kubernetes cluster and think about its scaling. All these operations are very repetitive. <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Yes, certainly. Moreover, if we take Kubernetes specifically, there\u2019s a point that there is actually a shortage of deep, good knowledge about Kubernetes in the market. Kubernetes is such a gigantic constructor that if you bring it into a company, be prepared to also bring in an engineer who will manage everything as a full-time job. And that\u2019s expensive. Plus, it\u2019s hard to find such an engineer. Speaking for myself, I don\u2019t really like cloud solutions because I understand Kubernetes quite well and deeply. Often in the cloud, I find a lack of functionality that I request \u2014 and I get told, 'No, it\u2019s not possible.' In that case, excuse me, but I can do better than the cloud. However, if you don\u2019t have a full-time engineer, and you\u2019re not willing to pay for an engineer who handles Kubernetes while you\u2019re constantly paying him a lot just for experimentation, then cloud is a really good solution. Because at least there are guys in the cloud whom the provider has already hired. They know what they\u2019re doing. And they have the basic things you need on a daily basis.<\/p>\n

Azat Khadiyev: What do you think about the current state of Kubernetes? What will happen to it in five or ten years?<\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Bra godt sp\u00f8rsm\u00e5l. Jeg vet bare hva som skjer i fellesskapet v\u00e5rt om dette. Noen mennesker tror at uten Kubernetes vil det ikke v\u00e6re noe igjen. Det er samme situasjonen som lenge har skjedd med Linux. Utenfor Linux er det folk som lever p\u00e5 BSD, mest sannsynlig har de veldig spesifikke oppgaver. Det er folk som jobber med Windows \u2013 Windows-servere \u2013 mest sannsynlig har de ogs\u00e5 spesifikke oppgaver, eller de har bare kompetanse innen dette og er ikke klare til \u00e5 forlate det. Uansett, standarden i v\u00e5rt felt er Linux. Det er en mening om at Kubernetes vil bli en slik de facto-standard, og bortsett fra Kubernetes vil det ikke bli annet. Kubernetes vil h\u00e5ndtere ikke bare applikasjoner, deres distribusjon, deployering, skalering. Egentlig alt. N\u00e5 sp\u00f8r de allerede: \"Kan man putte en database inn i Kubernetes?\" Jeg pleier \u00e5 si at sp\u00f8rsm\u00e5let ikke er i Kubernetes, men i Docker. Hvis du er klar til at databasen din skal kj\u00f8re i containere, hvordan den vil fungere. Jeg f\u00e5r svar: \"Nei, nei, nei, vent litt. I containere er ikke n\u00f8dvendig. Det m\u00e5 v\u00e6re i Kubernetes. Vi skal knytte den til noden. S\u00e5 alt vil v\u00e6re som vi har n\u00e5, bare at Kubernetes vil h\u00e5ndtere alt dette.\" Og det er egentlig en god id\u00e9. S\u00e5 Kubernetes er slik at du kan komme til et selskap, hvis selskapet har Kubernetes og prosessene bygget p\u00e5 den, da er det nok for en person som kjenner til dette \u00e5 se p\u00e5 et par dager for \u00e5 si: \"Jeg er klar til \u00e5 st\u00f8tte dere. Fullstendig. Alt. Jeg forsto hvordan alt fungerer hos dere.\" I motsetning til tiln\u00e6rminger uten Kubernetes \u2013 her har de puttet inn noen st\u00f8tter, der har de lagt noen andre st\u00f8tter. Her er Ansible, her er Terraform. Alt dette er skrevet av noen, og det tar seks m\u00e5neder \u00e5 forst\u00e5. S\u00e5, om Kubernetes vil bli en de facto-standard, vet jeg ikke. I dag ser det mye mer ambisi\u00f8st og selvsikkert ut enn l\u00f8sningene rundt det. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Vel, sammenligningen med Linux er ganske dristig. Den kj\u00f8rer p\u00e5 \u00e9n maskin \u2013 og det er alt. Men Kubernetes kj\u00f8rer p\u00e5 mange maskiner. Det oppst\u00e5r straks en million variasjoner, grunner. Ja, det er dristig. Bare hvis man tar h\u00f8yde for at det er konkurrenter til denne paradigmen. For eksempel serverless. Er Kubernetes i fare med slike konkurrenter? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Fra Serverless... (latter) Serverless \u2014 vi m\u00e5 allikevel forst\u00e5 at serveren<\/a> det faktisk finnes. Jeg h\u00f8rte nylig en presentasjon om dette. Der sa en person at servere faktisk eksisterer \u2014 og det er skyen. Men vi m\u00e5 alltid forst\u00e5 at i skyen finnes det ogs\u00e5 servere. Det st\u00e5r ekte maskinvare, rack, og de er installert et sted. Det er skyen. Over dette eksisterer Serverless, hvor servere<\/a> \u00abdet ikke finnes\u00bb. S\u00e5 sp\u00f8rsm\u00e5let er: Vil Serverless overvinne Kubernetes? Jeg mener at Serverless vil flytte inn i Kubernetes. For leverand\u00f8rer som tilbyr Serverless er Kubernetes en veldig praktisk plattform for \u00e5 levere dette. Ja, kanskje p\u00e5 et tidspunkt vil vi slutte \u00e5 snakke om Kubernetes generelt, som en vanlig utvikling av forretningsapplikasjoner. Men dypt nede, hos leverand\u00f8rene og ingeni\u00f8rene, vil Kubernetes v\u00e6re der hvor alt dette blir implementert. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadieff: Et litt annet tema. Det finnes et begrep som heter fullstack-ingeni\u00f8r. Hva tenker du om dem? Finnes de i det hele tatt? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: \u00d8h... Fullstack-ingeni\u00f8r... Jeg mener at vi m\u00e5 skille mellom disse tingene. Du vet, det finnes noe som heter T-shaped people. Trengs slike mennesker i dagens industri? Ja, absolutt. Vi trenger folk som har et bredt perspektiv, men som samtidig er spesialister innen et smalt omr\u00e5de. Og her er Fullstack-ingeni\u00f8ren det samme \u2014 en person som gj\u00f8r alt. Fra frontend-utvikling, testing, backend, servere og alt annet. Jeg tror ikke at i et stort selskap kan \u00e9n person h\u00e5ndtere alt uten \u00e5 ha spesialiserte ferdigheter p\u00e5 hvert omr\u00e5de. Men samtidig, \u00e5 ha bare en smal spesialisering, og si at jeg ikke vet noe om hva som skjer rundt det \u2014 det fungerer ikke i dagens verden. S\u00e5 jeg ville sagt... jeg ville kastet bort ordet Fullstack. Vi trenger virkelig ingeni\u00f8rer. Vi trenger DevOps. Jeg f\u00f8ler at vi snart vil revurdere dette punktet. Og de vil ikke v\u00e6re n\u00f8dvendige. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadieff: Kan du utdype? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Jeg tror vi i industrien vil komme til at se, at disse roller Dev og Ops snart vil forsvinde. Hvis vi har brug for specialister, og vi rekrutterer... Vi har brug for en udvikler af denne type, vi har brug for administratorer af denne type, vi har brug for DevOps-ingeni\u00f8rer \u2014 nu er de her, og nu vil vi ogs\u00e5 f\u00e5 produktionsingeni\u00f8rer, SRE-ingeni\u00f8rer. Selvom det, vi virkelig har brug for, er ingeni\u00f8rer, som vi \u00f8nsker at ans\u00e6tte. Baggrunden er i virkeligheden ikke s\u00e5 vigtig. Fordi... For eksempel siger SRE, at problemer med infrastrukturen altid er softwarem\u00e6ssige. S\u00e5 lad os ans\u00e6tte udviklere \u2014 da udvikleren er en ingeni\u00f8r \u2014 s\u00e6tte dem i driftsteamet, og de vil l\u00f8se disse problemer p\u00e5 samme m\u00e5de, som de l\u00f8ser forretningsproblemer med kode, ved hj\u00e6lp af ingeni\u00f8rteknik. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Hvad ang\u00e5r dette... Hvordan interviewer man s\u00e5danne ingeni\u00f8rer? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Oh, that\u2019s a good question. It\u2019s probably beyond what I understand in this life. But I can give an example. It doesn\u2019t relate to the interview. This is about our education system in Russia. In IT, we know that our education system in Russia is very outdated for the IT world; it\u2019s not what it should be. I\u2019m talking generally about vast Russia \u2014 and what\u2019s happening there. Graduates are produced who are completely unprepared to step into web development or a tech company the day after graduation. And that\u2019s a bad thing. We\u2019re teaching them some strange things, although we should be teaching them how to develop for Android, for iOS, how to use Git, and all that. In reality, it seems like we\u2019re not. University is a time when mostly your parents pay for you. For your whole life. And you can dedicate five years of your life to study in depth. And learn all this T-shaped stuff. When you can study in university what a version control system is, what development patterns exist, how to test all this, what databases and load balancers there are. And when you start working, you begin to delve into a specific area. And this way we produce engineers. And our education system in Russia is much closer to this truth than it seems. We get a solid mathematical education, a strong algorithmic foundation, and we receive some understanding of programming languages. And about the interview, I think it\u2019s somewhat related. We need to interview engineers. We need the upper part of the T in T-shaped. Because they will acquire the vertical stroke of the T. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Yes, interesting. For five years after university, I thought my education was somehow strange and inadequate. But then, as I started working, when the tasks became deeper and the projects larger, I realized that no, I was taught very important things. Pavel, thank you. It was very interesting to hear your answers. Let\u2019s listen to your report. <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Thank you.
\n
Kilde: habr.com<\/a><\/p>","protected":false,"gt_translate_keys":[{"key":"rendered","format":"html"}]},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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An interview with Pavel Selivanov | ProHoster","description":"Transcription: Azat Khadiev: Hello.","canonical_url":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/no\/blog\/administrirovanie\/kubernetes-eto-novyj-linux-intervyu-s-pavlom-selivanovym","robots":"max-image-preview:large","keywords":"","webmasterTools":{"miscellaneous":""},"schema":null,"og:locale":"nn_NO","og:site_name":"ProHoster | \u041a\u0443\u043f\u0438\u0442\u044c \u043d\u0430\u0434\u0435\u0436\u043d\u044b\u0439 \u0445\u043e\u0441\u0442\u0438\u043d\u0433 \u0434\u043b\u044f \u0441\u0430\u0439\u0442\u043e\u0432 \u0441 \u0437\u0430\u0449\u0438\u0442\u043e\u0439 \u043e\u0442 DDoS, VPS VDS \u0441\u0435\u0440\u0432\u0435\u0440\u044b","og:type":"article","og:title":"\ud83e\udd47Kubernetes \u2014 \u044d\u0442\u043e \u043d\u043e\u0432\u044b\u0439 Linux? \u0418\u043d\u0442\u0435\u0440\u0432\u044c\u044e \u0441 \u041f\u0430\u0432\u043b\u043e\u043c \u0421\u0435\u043b\u0438\u0432\u0430\u043d\u043e\u0432\u044b\u043c | ProHoster","og:description":"\u0420\u0430\u0441\u0448\u0438\u0444\u0440\u043e\u0432\u043a\u0430: \u0410\u0437\u0430\u0442 \u0425\u0430\u0434\u0438\u0435\u0432: \u0417\u0434\u0440\u0430\u0432\u0441\u0442\u0432\u0443\u0439\u0442\u0435.","og:url":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/no\/blog\/administrirovanie\/kubernetes-eto-novyj-linux-intervyu-s-pavlom-selivanovym","og:image":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/11\/logo-350.jpg","og:image:secure_url":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/11\/logo-350.jpg","og:image:width":350,"og:image:height":350,"article:published_time":"2019-12-16T21:00:00+00:00","article:modified_time":"2020-02-18T11:02:02+00:00","article:publisher":"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/prohoster","article:author":"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/prohoster"},"aioseo_meta_data":{"post_id":"54069","title":null,"description":null,"keywords":null,"keyphrases":null,"primary_term":null,"canonical_url":null,"og_title":null,"og_description":null,"og_object_type":"default","og_image_type":"default","og_image_url":null,"og_image_width":null,"og_image_height":null,"og_image_custom_url":null,"og_image_custom_fields":null,"og_video":null,"og_custom_url":null,"og_article_section":null,"og_article_tags":null,"twitter_use_og":false,"twitter_card":"default","twitter_image_type":"default","twitter_image_url":null,"twitter_image_custom_url":null,"twitter_image_custom_fields":null,"twitter_title":null,"twitter_description":null,"schema":{"blockGraphs":[],"customGraphs":[],"default":{"data":{"Article":[],"Course":[],"Dataset":[],"FAQPage":[],"Movie":[],"Person":[],"Product":[],"ProductReview":[],"Car":[],"Recipe":[],"Service":[],"SoftwareApplication":[],"WebPage":[]},"graphName":"","isEnabled":true},"graphs":[]},"schema_type":null,"schema_type_options":null,"pillar_content":false,"robots_default":true,"robots_noindex":false,"robots_noarchive":false,"robots_nosnippet":false,"robots_nofollow":false,"robots_noimageindex":false,"robots_noodp":false,"robots_notranslate":false,"robots_max_snippet":null,"robots_max_videopreview":null,"robots_max_imagepreview":"large","priority":null,"frequency":null,"local_seo":null,"seo_analyzer_scan_date":"2026-02-22 15:57:24","breadcrumb_settings":null,"limit_modified_date":false,"reviewed_by":null,"ai":null,"created":"2021-02-28 20:12:24","updated":"2026-02-22 15:57:24","focus_keyword":null,"additional_keywords":null,"truseo_locale":null},"gt_translate_keys":[{"key":"link","format":"url"}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/no\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/54069","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/no\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/no\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/no\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/no\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=54069"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/no\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/54069\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":162117,"href":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/no\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/54069\/revisions\/162117"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/no\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=54069"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/no\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=54069"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/no\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=54069"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}