Ili ndi gawo lachiwiri la zokambirana zomwe zikuphatikizidwa mu anthology The Playboy Interview: Moguls, yomwe imaphatikizapo zokambirana ndi Jeff Bezos, Sergey Brin, Larry Page, David Geffen ndi ena ambiri.
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Playboy: Mukupanga kubetcha kwakukulu pa Macintosh. Iwo amati tsogolo la Apple zimadalira kupambana kapena kulephera kwake. Pambuyo pa kutulutsidwa kwa Lisa ndi Apple III, magawo a Apple adatsika kwambiri, ndipo pali mphekesera kuti Apple sangakhale ndi moyo.
Ntchito: Inde, tinali ndi zovuta. Tidadziwa kuti tidayenera kupanga chozizwitsa ndi Macintosh kapena maloto athu pazogulitsa kapena kampaniyo siyingakwaniritsidwe.
Playboy: Kodi mavuto anu anali aakulu bwanji? Kodi Apple idakumana ndi bankirapuse?
Ntchito: Ayi, ayi ndi AYI. M'malo mwake, 1983, pomwe maulosi onsewa adapangidwa, chidakhala chaka chopambana kwambiri kwa Apple. Mu 1983, tidachulukitsa ndalama kuchokera $583 miliyoni kufika $980 miliyoni. Pafupifupi malonda onse anali a Apple II, ndipo tinkafuna zambiri. Macintosh akadapanda kutchuka, tikadakhalabe biliyoni pachaka kugulitsa Apple II ndi kusiyanasiyana kwake.
Playboy: Ndiye nchiyani chinayambitsa kukamba za kugwa kwanu?
Ntchito: IBM idakwera ndikuyamba kugwira ntchitoyi. Opanga mapulogalamu adayamba kusinthira ku IBM. Ogulitsa anali kuyankhula mochulukira za IBM. Zinali zoonekeratu kwa ife kuti Macintosh idzawombera aliyense ndikusintha makampani onse. Iyi inali ntchito yake. Macintosh akadapanda kuchita bwino, ndikadasiya chifukwa ndimalakwitsa kwambiri masomphenya anga amakampaniwo.
Playboy: Zaka zinayi zapitazo, Apple III imayenera kukhala yosinthika, yosinthidwa ya Apple II, koma idalephera. Munakumbukira makompyuta oyambilira a 14 omwe adagulitsidwa, ndipo ngakhale mtundu wowongoka sunapambane. Kodi mwataya ndalama zingati pa Apple III?
Ntchito: Zodabwitsa, zambiri zopanda malire. Ndikuganiza kuti Apple III ikanakhala yopambana, zikanakhala zovuta kuti IBM ilowe pamsika. Koma ndiwo moyo. Ndikuganiza kuti chochitikachi chinatilimbikitsa kwambiri.
Playboy: Komabe, Lisa nayenso anali wolephera. Chinachake chalakwika?
Ntchito: Choyamba, makompyuta anali okwera mtengo kwambiri ndipo amawononga pafupifupi zikwi khumi. Tinachoka ku mizu yathu, tinayiwala kuti timayenera kugulitsa katundu kwa anthu, ndikudalira makampani akuluakulu a Fortune 500. Panali mavuto ena - kutumiza kunatenga nthawi yayitali, mapulogalamuwa sanagwire ntchito momwe timafunira, choncho tinataya mphamvu. Kupititsa patsogolo kwa IBM, kuphatikiza kuchedwa kwathu kwa miyezi isanu ndi umodzi, kuphatikiza mtengo wake unali wokwera kwambiri, kuphatikiza cholakwika china - lingaliro logulitsa Lisa kudzera paogulitsa ochepa. Panali 150 kapena kuposerapo - uku kunali kupusa koopsa kwa ife, zomwe zidatiwonongera kwambiri. Tinalemba ntchito anthu omwe ankaonedwa ngati akatswiri a zamalonda ndi kasamalidwe. Zingawoneke ngati lingaliro labwino, koma makampani athu ndi aang'ono kwambiri kotero kuti malingaliro a akatswiriwa adakhala achikale ndikulepheretsa kuti ntchitoyi ichitike.
Playboy: Kodi uku kunali kusadzidalira kwa inu? “Tafika apa ndipo zinthu zafika poipa. Tikufuna zowonjezera."
Ntchito: Osayiwala, tinali ndi zaka 23-25. Ife tinalibe chokumana nacho chotero, chotero lingalirolo linawoneka kukhala lomveka.
Playboy: Zosankha zambiri, zabwino kapena zoipa, zinali zanu?
Ntchito: Tinayesetsa kuonetsetsa kuti zosankha sizimapangidwa ndi munthu mmodzi yekha. Panthawiyo, kampaniyo inkayendetsedwa ndi anthu atatu: Mike Scott, Mike Markkula ndi ineyo. Masiku ano pali anthu awiri pa helm - Purezidenti wa Apple John Sculley ndi ine. Titayamba, nthawi zambiri ndinkakambirana ndi anzanga odziwa zambiri. Monga lamulo, adakhala olondola. Pazinthu zina zofunika, ndikanachita mwanjira yanga, ndipo zikadakhala bwino kukampaniyo.
Playboy: Mukufuna kuyendetsa gawo la Lisa. Markkula ndi Scott (kwenikweni, mabwana anu, ngakhale kuti munatenga nawo gawo pakusankhidwa kwawo) sanakuoneni kuti ndinu woyenera, sichoncho?
Ntchito: Pambuyo pofotokoza mfundo zazikuluzikulu, kusankha osewera ofunika ndikukonza njira zamakono, Scotty adaganiza kuti ndinalibe chidziwitso chokwanira pa polojekiti yotereyi. Ndinali mu ululu-palibe njira ina yofotokozera.
Playboy: Kodi mumamva ngati mukutaya Apple?
Ntchito: Mbali ina. Koma chokhumudwitsa kwambiri chinali chakuti anthu ambiri adaitanidwa ku ntchito ya Lisa omwe sanagwirizane ndi masomphenya athu oyambirira. Panali mkangano waukulu mkati mwa gulu la Lisa pakati pa omwe ankafuna kumanga chinachake monga Macintosh, ndi omwe adachokera ku Hewlett-Packard ndi makampani ena ndipo adabweretsa malingaliro kuchokera ku makina akuluakulu ndi malonda a malonda. Ndinaganiza kuti kuti ndipange Macintosh, ndiyenera kutenga kagulu kakang'ono ka anthu ndikuchokapo - kubwereranso ku garaja. Kalelo sitinkationa mozama. Ndikuganiza kuti Scotty ankangofuna kunditonthoza kapena kundisangalatsa.
Playboy: Koma munayambitsa kampaniyi. Kodi munakwiya?
Ntchito: N’zosatheka kukwiyira mwana wako.
Playboy: Ngakhale mwana ameneyu akutumiza kugahena?
Ntchito: Sindinamve kukwiya. Chisoni chozama komanso kukhumudwa. Koma ndinapeza antchito abwino kwambiri a Apple - ngati izi sizinachitike, kampaniyo ikanakhala m'mavuto aakulu. Inde, awa ndi anthu omwe ali ndi udindo wopanga Macintosh. [amanjenjemera] Tangoyang'anani pa Mac.
Playboy: Palibe lingaliro logwirizana panobe. Mac idayambitsidwa ndi fani yofanana ndi ya Lisa, koma pulojekiti yam'mbuyomu sinayambike.
Ntchito: Izi ndi Zow. Tidali ndi chiyembekezo chachikulu cha Lisa, chomwe sichinachitike. Chovuta kwambiri chinali chakuti timadziwa kuti Macintosh ikubwera, ndipo inakonza pafupifupi mavuto onse ndi Lisa. Kukula kwake kunali kubwerera ku mizu - tikugulitsanso makompyuta kwa anthu, osati mabungwe. Tinajambula ndikupanga kompyuta yabwino kwambiri, yabwino kwambiri m'mbiri.
Playboy: Kodi muyenera kukhala openga kuti mupange zinthu zabwino zopenga?
Ntchito: Ndipotu, chinthu chachikulu pakupanga mankhwala ozizira mwamisala ndi ndondomeko yokha, kuphunzira zinthu zatsopano, kuvomereza zatsopano ndi kutaya malingaliro akale. Koma inde, opanga Mac amakhudzidwa pang'ono.
Playboy: Kodi amalekanitsa chiyani omwe ali ndi malingaliro openga ndi omwe amatha kuwatsata?
Ntchito: Tiyeni titenge IBM monga chitsanzo. Nanga bwanji timu ya Mac idatulutsa Mac ndipo IBM idatulutsa PCjr? Tikuganiza kuti Mac idzagulitsa bwino kwambiri, koma sitinapangire aliyense. Tinadzipangira tokha. Ine ndi gulu langa tinkafuna kusankha tokha ngati iye anali wabwino kapena ayi. Sitinapange kusanthula msika. Tinkangofuna kupanga makompyuta abwino kwambiri. Tayerekezerani kuti ndinu kalipentala mukupanga kabati yokongola. Simungapange khoma lakumbuyo kuchokera ku plywood yotsika mtengo, ngakhale idzapumira pakhoma ndipo palibe amene adzayiwone. Mudzadziwa zomwe zilipo ndikugwiritsa ntchito nkhuni zabwino kwambiri. Aesthetics ndi khalidwe ayenera kukhala pa mlingo wapamwamba, mwinamwake simungathe kugona usiku.
Playboy: Mukunena kuti omwe amapanga PCjr sakunyadira chilengedwe chawo?
Ntchito: Zikanakhala choncho, sakadammasula. Ndizodziwikiratu kwa ine kuti adazipanga potengera kafukufuku wamsika wamtundu wina wamakasitomala ndipo amayembekeza makasitomala onsewo kuti athamangire kusitolo ndikupangira ndalama zambiri. Ichi ndi chilimbikitso chosiyana kotheratu. Gulu la Mac likufuna kupanga kompyuta yayikulu kwambiri m'mbiri ya anthu.
Playboy: N’chifukwa chiyani achinyamata ambiri amagwira ntchito pa kompyuta? Avereji yazaka za wogwira ntchito ku Apple ndi zaka 29.
Ntchito: Izi zikugwira ntchito kumadera aliwonse atsopano, osintha. Anthu akamakalamba, amakhala otopa. Ubongo wathu uli ngati kompyuta ya electrochemical. Malingaliro anu amapanga mapangidwe omwe ali ngati scaffolding. Anthu ambiri amakakamira m'machitidwe omwe amawazolowera ndipo amangoyendabe pawokha, monga singano ya wosewera mpira akuyenda m'mizere ya mbiri. Ndi anthu ochepa okha omwe angathe kusiya njira yawo yanthawi zonse yowonera zinthu ndikusintha njira zatsopano. Ndizosowa kwambiri kuwona wojambula wopitilira zaka makumi atatu kapena makumi anayi akupanga ntchito zodabwitsa kwambiri. Inde, pali anthu omwe chidwi chawo chachibadwa chimawalola kukhalabe ana kwamuyaya, koma izi ndizosowa.
Playboy: Owerenga athu azaka makumi anayi adzayamikira mawu anu. Tiyeni tipitirire ku nkhani ina yomwe imatchulidwa kawirikawiri ndi Apple - kampani, osati kompyuta. Amakupatsanso kumverera kwaumesiya komweko, sichoncho?
Ntchito: Ndikuona kuti tikusintha anthu osati mothandizidwa ndi makompyuta. Ndikuganiza kuti Apple ili ndi kuthekera kokhala kampani ya Fortune 500 kumapeto kwa zaka makumi asanu ndi atatu kapena koyambirira kwa zaka makumi asanu ndi anayi. Zaka khumi mpaka khumi ndi zisanu zapitazo, polemba mndandanda wa makampani asanu ochititsa chidwi kwambiri ku United States, ambiri akadaphatikizapo Polaroid ndi Xerox. Ali kuti lero? Kodi chinawachitikira n’chiyani? Pamene makampani akukhala zimphona za madola mabiliyoni ambiri, amataya masomphenya awo. Amayamba kupanga maulalo pakati pa oyang'anira ndi omwe amagwira ntchito. Amataya chilakolako cha mankhwala awo. Opanga enieni, omwe amasamala, ayenera kugonjetsa magulu asanu a oyang'anira kuti achite zomwe akuganiza kuti ndizofunikira.
Makampani ambiri sangathe kusunga anthu anzeru m'malo omwe kuchita bwino kwamunthu payekha sikukhumudwitsidwa komanso kunyozedwa. Akatswiriwa amachoka, koma imvi imakhalabe. Ndikudziwa izi chifukwa Apple idamangidwa motero. Ife, monga Ellis Island, tinalandira othawa kwawo kuchokera ku makampani ena. M'makampani ena, anthu owoneka bwinowa ankaonedwa kuti ndi opanduka komanso oyambitsa mavuto.
Mukudziwa, Dr. Edwin Land analinso wopanduka. Anasiya Harvard ndipo adayambitsa Polaroid. Dziko silinali chabe m’modzi mwa akatswiri otulukira kwambiri a m’nthaŵi yathu—iye anaona pamene luso, sayansi, ndi malonda zimadutsa, ndipo anayambitsa bungwe losonyeza mphambano imeneyo. Polaroid anapambana kwa kanthawi, koma kenako Dr. Land, mmodzi wa opanduka akuluakulu, anafunsidwa kuti asiye kampani yake - chimodzi mwa zisankho zopusa zomwe ndapangapo. Kenako Land wazaka 75 adatenga sayansi yeniyeni - mpaka kumapeto kwa moyo wake anayesa kuthetsa mwambi wa masomphenya amtundu. Munthu uyu ndi chuma cha dziko lathu. Sindikumvetsa chifukwa chake anthu ngati awa sagwiritsidwa ntchito ngati zitsanzo. Anthu oterowo ndi ozizira kwambiri kuposa oyenda mumlengalenga ndi osewera mpira; palibe wina wozizirirapo kuposa iwo.
Kawirikawiri, imodzi mwa ntchito zazikulu zomwe John Sculley ndi ine tidzaweruzidwa zaka zisanu mpaka khumi ndikusandutsa Apple kukhala kampani yaikulu yokhala ndi ndalama zokwana madola mabiliyoni khumi kapena makumi awiri. Kodi udzasungabe mzimu wamakono? Tikudzifufuza tokha gawo latsopano. Palibe zitsanzo zina zomwe mungadalire - osati kukula, kapena kusinthika kwa zisankho za kasamalidwe. Chotero ife tidzayenera kupita kwathu.
Playboy: Ngati Apple ndi yapadera kwambiri, chifukwa chiyani ikufunika kuwonjezeka kochulukira kawiri? Bwanji osakhalabe kampani yaying'ono?
Ntchito: Makampani athu adapangidwa mwanjira yoti kuti tikhalebe m'modzi mwa osewera akulu, tikuyenera kukhala kampani ya madola mabiliyoni khumi. Kukula ndikofunikira kuti mukhalebe wampikisano. Izi ndi zomwe zimatidetsa nkhawa; mulingo wandalama ulibe kanthu.
Ogwira ntchito ku Apple amagwira ntchito maola 18 patsiku. Timasonkhanitsa anthu apadera - omwe safuna kudikirira zaka zisanu kapena khumi kuti wina aike pachiwopsezo kwa iwo. Amene akufunadi kukwaniritsa zambiri ndikusiya chizindikiro m'mbiri. Tikudziwa kuti tikupanga chinthu chofunikira komanso chapadera. Tili koyambirira kwa ulendowu ndipo titha kudziwa tokha njira. Aliyense wa ife akuona kuti tikusintha tsogolo pakali pano. Anthu ambiri ndi ogula. Inu kapena ine sitimapanga zovala zathu, sitilima chakudya chathu, timalankhula chinenero chopangidwa ndi munthu wina ndikugwiritsa ntchito masamu omwe adapangidwa kalekale. Nthawi zambiri timatha kupatsa dziko zinthu zathuzathu. Tsopano tili ndi mwayi wotero. Ndipo ayi, sitikudziwa komwe zingatifikitse - koma tikudziwa kuti ndife gawo la chinthu chachikulu kuposa ifeyo.
Playboy: Mwanena kuti ndikofunikira kuti mutenge msika wamabizinesi ndi Macintosh. Kodi mungagonjetse IBM pamundawu?
Ntchito: Inde. Msika uwu wagawidwa m'magawo angapo. Ndimakonda kuganiza kuti palibe Fortune 500 yokha, komanso Fortune 5000000 kapena Fortune 14000000. Pali malonda ang'onoang'ono a 14 miliyoni m'dziko lathu. Zikuwoneka kwa ine kuti antchito ambiri amakampani apakati ndi ang'onoang'ono amafunikira makompyuta ogwira ntchito. Tidzawapatsa mayankho abwino chaka chamawa, 1985.
Playboy: Zotani?
Ntchito: Njira yathu sikuyang'ana mabizinesi, koma magulu. Tikufuna kupanga kusintha kwabwino pantchito yawo. Sikokwanira kwa ife kuwathandiza ndi gulu la mawu kapena kufulumizitsa kuwonjezera manambala. Tikufuna kusintha momwe amalumikizirana wina ndi mnzake. Ma memo amasamba asanu amafupikitsidwa kukhala amodzi chifukwa mutha kugwiritsa ntchito chithunzi kufotokoza lingaliro lalikulu. Mapepala ochepa, kulankhulana kwabwino kwambiri. Ndipo ndizosangalatsa kwambiri mwanjira iyi. Pazifukwa zina, pakhala pali malingaliro akuti ngakhale anthu okondwa komanso osangalatsa pantchito amasandulika kukhala maloboti wandiweyani. Izi sizowona ayi. Ngati titha kubweretsa mzimu waufuluwu m'dziko lalikulu lazamalonda, zikhala zothandiza kwambiri. Ndizovuta ngakhale kulingalira momwe zinthu zidzapitira.
Playboy: Koma mu gawo la bizinesi, ngakhale dzina la IBM lokha limakutsutsani. Anthu amaphatikiza IBM ndikuchita bwino komanso kukhazikika. Wosewera wina watsopano wamakompyuta, AT&T, alinso ndi chakukhosi ndi inu. Apple ndi kampani yaying'ono yomwe ingawoneke yosayesedwa kwa omwe angakhale makasitomala ndi makampani akuluakulu.
Ntchito: Macintosh itithandiza kulowa gawo la bizinesi. IBM imagwira ntchito ndi mabizinesi kuyambira pamwamba mpaka pansi. Kuti tipambane, tiyenera kubwerera m’mbuyo, kuyambira pansi. Ndilongosola pogwiritsa ntchito chitsanzo cha kuyala maukonde - sitiyenera kulumikiza makampani onse nthawi imodzi, monga IBM imachitira, koma kuyang'ana kwambiri magulu ang'onoang'ono ogwira ntchito.
Playboy: Katswiri wina ananena kuti kuti malonda apite patsogolo komanso kuti apindule ndi wogwiritsa ntchito mapeto, payenera kukhala muyezo umodzi.
Ntchito: Izi sizowona. Kunena kuti muyezo umodzi ukufunika masiku ano n’chimodzimodzi ndi kunena mu 1920 kuti pakufunika mtundu umodzi wa galimoto. Pankhaniyi, sitingawone kufala kwadzidzidzi, chiwongolero chamagetsi ndi kuyimitsidwa kodziyimira pawokha. Ukadaulo wozizira ndi chinthu chomaliza chomwe muyenera kuchita. Macintosh ndi kusintha kwa makompyuta. Palibe kukayika kuti ukadaulo wa Macintosh ndi wapamwamba kuposa ukadaulo wa IBM. IBM ikufunika njira ina.
Playboy: Kodi lingaliro lanu losapanga kompyuta kuti ligwirizane ndi IBM likukhudzana ndi kukana kugonjera wopikisana naye? Wotsutsa wina amakhulupirira kuti chifukwa chokhacho ndi chikhumbo chanu - akuti Steve Jobs akutumiza IBM kugahena.
Ntchito: Ayi, sitinayese kutsimikizira umuna wathu ndi chithandizo chaumwini.
Playboy: Ndiye chifukwa chani?
Ntchito: Mtsutso waukulu ndi wakuti teknoloji yomwe tapanga ndi yabwino kwambiri. Sizingakhale zabwino ngati zikanakhala zogwirizana ndi IBM. Zachidziwikire, sitikufuna kuti IBM izilamulira makampani athu, ndi zoona. Zinkawoneka kwa ambiri kuti kupanga kompyuta yosagwirizana ndi IBM kunali misala yoyera. Kampani yathu idatenga izi pazifukwa ziwiri zazikulu. Yoyamba - ndipo zikuwoneka kuti moyo umatsimikizira kuti tikulondola - ndikuti ndi kosavuta kwa IBM "kuphimba" ndikuwononga makampani omwe amapanga makompyuta ogwirizana.
Chinthu chachiwiri komanso chofunika kwambiri ndi chakuti kampani yathu imayendetsedwa ndi malingaliro apadera a mankhwala omwe amapanga. Timakhulupirira kuti makompyuta ndi zida zochititsa chidwi kwambiri zomwe anthu apangapo, ndipo anthu amagwiritsa ntchito zida. Izi zikutanthauza kuti popereka makompyuta kwa anthu ambiri, tipanga masinthidwe abwino padziko lapansi. Ku Apple, tikufuna kupanga kompyuta kukhala chida chodziwika bwino chapakhomo ndikudziwitsa anthu mamiliyoni ambiri. Ndicho chimene ife tikufuna. Sitinathe kukwaniritsa cholinga ichi ndiukadaulo wa IBM, zomwe zikutanthauza kuti tidayenera kupanga tokha. Umu ndi momwe Macintosh anabadwira.
Playboy: Pakati pa 1981 ndi 1983, gawo lanu la msika wa makompyuta linatsika kuchoka pa 29 peresenti kufika pa 23 peresenti. Gawo la IBM lidakula kuchoka pa 3 peresenti kufika pa 29 peresenti panthawi yomweyi. Kodi mumayankha bwanji manambala?
Ntchito: Manambala sanativutitsepo. Apple imayang'ana kwambiri zamalonda chifukwa chinthucho ndi chofunikira kwambiri. IBM ikugogomezera ntchito, chithandizo, chitetezo, mainframes ndi pafupifupi chisamaliro cha amayi. Zaka zitatu zapitazo, Apple adanena kuti kunali kosatheka kupatsa amayi makompyuta mamiliyoni khumi aliwonse omwe amagulitsidwa m'chaka-ngakhale IBM ilibe amayi ambiri. Izi zikutanthauza kuti umayi uyenera kumangidwa pakompyuta yokha. Ndilo gawo lalikulu la zomwe Macintosh ikunena.
Zonse zimatsikira ku Apple motsutsana ndi IBM. Ngati pazifukwa zina timalakwitsa zolakwika ndipo IBM ipambana, ndiye kuti zaka 20 zikubwerazi zidzakhala zaka zamdima zamakompyuta. IBM ikatenga gawo la msika, zatsopano zimasiya. IBM ikuletsa zatsopano.
Playboy: Chifukwa?
Ntchito: Tiyeni titenge mwachitsanzo kampani yosangalatsa ngati Frito-Lay. Imatumiza maoda opitilira zikwi mazana asanu pa sabata. Pali rack ya Frito-Lay m'sitolo iliyonse, ndipo m'magulu akuluakulu muli angapo. Vuto lalikulu la Frito-Lay ndikusowa katundu, kunena pang'ono, tchipisi topanda kukoma. Ati, antchito zikwi khumi akuthamanga ndikuchotsa tchipisi toyipa ndi zabwino. Amalankhulana ndi oyang'anira ndikuwonetsetsa kuti zonse zili bwino. Utumiki woterewu ndi chithandizo zimawapatsa gawo la 80% pagawo lililonse la msika wa tchipisi. Palibe amene angakanize. Malingana ngati akupitirizabe kuchita ntchito yabwino, palibe amene angawachotsere 80 peresenti ya msika - alibe malonda okwanira komanso anthu aluso. Sangawalembe ntchito chifukwa alibe ndalama zochitira zimenezi. Alibe ndalama chifukwa alibe 80 peresenti ya msika. Ndiwogwira-22. Palibe amene angagwedeze chimphona chotere.
Frito-Lay safuna zambiri zatsopano. Amangoyang'ana zatsopano za opanga tchipisi tating'ono, amaphunzira zatsopanozi kwa chaka chimodzi, ndipo pakatha chaka china kapena ziwiri amatulutsa mankhwala ofanana, amapereka chithandizo choyenera, ndipo amalandira 80 peresenti yomweyo ya msika watsopano.
IBM ikuchita chimodzimodzi. Onani gawo la mainframe - kuyambira pomwe IBM idayamba kulamulira gawoli zaka 15 zapitazo, zatsopano zatha. Zomwezo zidzachitika m'magawo ena onse amsika wamakompyuta ngati IBM iloledwa kuyika manja pa iwo. IBM PC sinabweretse dontho limodzi laukadaulo watsopano kumakampani. Ndi Apple II yokonzedwanso komanso yosinthidwa pang'ono, ndipo akufuna kutenga nawo msika wonse. Iwo ndithudi akufuna msika wonse.
Kaya timakonda kapena ayi, msika umadalira makampani awiri okha. Sindimakonda, koma zonse zimatengera Apple ndi IBM.
Playboy: Mungakhale bwanji otsimikiza pamene makampani akusintha mofulumira kwambiri? Tsopano Macintosh ali pamilomo ya aliyense, koma zidzachitika bwanji zaka ziwiri? Kodi izi sizikutsutsana ndi nzeru zanu? Mukuyesera kutenga malo a IBM, kodi palibe makampani ang'onoang'ono omwe akufuna kutenga malo a Apple?
Ntchito: Ngati tilankhula mwachindunji za malonda a makompyuta, chirichonse chiri m'manja mwa Apple ndi IBM. Sindikuganiza kuti aliyense angatenge malo achitatu, achinayi, achisanu ndi chimodzi kapena achisanu ndi chiwiri. Makampani ang'onoang'ono, omwe akupanga zatsopano nthawi zambiri amayendetsedwa ndi mapulogalamu. Ndikuganiza kuti titha kuyembekezera zopambana kuchokera kwa iwo m'dera la mapulogalamu, koma osati m'dera la hardware.
Playboy: IBM ikhoza kunena zomwezo za hardware, koma simudzawakhululukira. Kodi pali kusiyana kotani?
Ntchito: Ndikuganiza kuti dera lathu la bizinesi lakula kwambiri kotero kuti zidzakhala zovuta kuti aliyense ayambitse china chatsopano.
Playboy: Kodi makampani a madola mabiliyoni sadzabadwanso m'magalaja?
Ntchito: Kompyuta - ayi, ndikukayikira kwenikweni. Izi zimayika udindo wapadera pa Apple - ngati tikuyembekeza zatsopano kuchokera kwa wina aliyense, ziyenera kukhala zochokera kwa ife. Iyi ndi njira yokhayo imene tingamenyere nkhondo. Ngati tipita mofulumira, sadzatipeza.
Playboy: Kodi mukuganiza kuti IBM ipeza liti makampani omwe amapanga makompyuta ogwirizana ndi IBM?
Ntchito: Pakhoza kukhalabe makampani a copycat mu $100-200 miliyoni, koma ndalama zamtunduwu zikutanthauza kuti mukuvutika kuti mukhale ndi moyo ndipo mulibe nthawi yopangira zatsopano. Ndikukhulupirira kuti IBM idzachotsa otsanzira ndi mapulogalamu omwe alibe, ndipo potsirizira pake adzayambitsa ndondomeko yatsopano yomwe sagwirizana ngakhale ndi masiku ano - ndizochepa kwambiri.
Playboy: Koma inu munachitanso chimodzimodzi. Ngati munthu ali ndi mapulogalamu a Apple II, sangathe kuwayendetsa pa Macintosh.
Ntchito: Ndiko kulondola, Mac ndi chipangizo chatsopano. Tidamvetsetsa kuti titha kukopa omwe ali ndi chidwi ndiukadaulo womwe ulipo - Apple II, IBM PC - chifukwa akadakhalabe pamakompyuta usana ndi usiku, kuyesera kuti adziwe bwino. Koma anthu ambiri adzakhala osafikirika kwa ife.
Kuti tipereke makompyuta kwa anthu mamiliyoni ambiri, tinkafunika luso lamakono lomwe likanapangitsa kuti makompyuta azikhala osavuta kugwiritsa ntchito komanso kuti akhale amphamvu kwambiri. Tinkafunika kuchitapo kanthu. Tinkafuna kuchita zonse zomwe tingathe chifukwa Macintosh ukhoza kukhala mwayi wathu womaliza kuti tiyambenso. Ndasangalala kwambiri ndi zimene tinachita. Macintosh adzatipatsa maziko abwino kwa zaka khumi zikubwerazi.
Playboy: Tiyeni tibwerere ku mizu, kwa omwe adatsogolera Lisa ndi Mac, mpaka pachiyambi. Kodi makolo anu anakulimbikitsani motani kukonda makompyuta?
Ntchito: Anandilimbikitsa chidwi. Bambo anga anali makaniko komanso katswiri pa ntchito ndi manja awo. Amatha kukonza makina aliwonse. Ndi ichi adandipatsa chilimbikitso choyamba. Ndidayamba kuchita chidwi ndi zamagetsi ndipo adayamba kundibweretsera zinthu zomwe ndimatha kuzichotsa ndikuzibwezeretsanso. Anasamutsidwira ku Palo Alto pamene ndinali ndi zaka zisanu, ndi mmene tinathera ku Chigwa.
Playboy: Munaleredwa ndi makolo anu, sichoncho? Kodi izi zakhudza bwanji moyo wanu?
Ntchito: Zovuta kunena. Angadziwe ndani.
Playboy: Kodi munayesapo kufufuza makolo obereka?
Ntchito: Ndikuganiza kuti ana oleredwa amakhala ndi chidwi ndi kumene anachokera - ambiri amafuna kumvetsetsa kumene mikhalidwe ina inachokera. Koma ndikukhulupirira kuti chilengedwe ndichofunika kwambiri. Maleredwe anu, zikhulupiriro, malingaliro adziko lapansi amachokera paubwana wanu. Koma zinthu zina sizingathe kufotokozedwa ndi chilengedwe. Ndikuganiza kuti nkwachibadwa kukhala ndi chidwi chotero. Inenso ndinali nayo.
Playboy: Munakwanitsa kupeza makolo enieni?
Ntchito: Uwu ndiye mutu wokhawo womwe sindinakonzekere kukambirana.
Playboy: Chigwa chimene munasamukirako limodzi ndi makolo anu masiku ano chimatchedwa Silicon Valley. Kodi kukula kumeneko kunali kotani?
Ntchito: Tinkakhala m’midzi. Unali mudzi wamba waku America - ana ambiri amakhala pafupi ndi ife. Mayi anga anandiphunzitsa kuwerenga ndisanapite kusukulu, choncho ndinatopa ndi kuyamba kuopseza aphunzitsi. Ukadaona giredi yathu yachitatu, tidachita zonyansa - tidatulutsa njoka, kuphulitsa mabomba. Koma m’kalasi lachinayi zonse zinasintha. Mmodzi mwa angelo anga omwe amandisamalira ndi mphunzitsi wanga Imogen Hill, yemwe adaphunzitsa maphunziro apamwamba. Adandimvetsetsa komanso momwe ndilili m'mwezi umodzi wokha ndipo adayatsa chidwi changa cha chidziwitso. Ndinaphunzira zinthu zatsopano kwambiri chaka chino kuposa china chilichonse. Kumapeto kwa chaka anafuna kuti andisamutsire ku sekondale, koma makolo anga anzeru anatsutsa zimenezo.
Playboy: Kodi malo omwe mumakhala nawonso adakukhudzani? Kodi Silicon Valley idapangidwa bwanji?
Ntchito: Chigwachi chili pakati pa mayunivesite akuluakulu awiri, Berkeley ndi Stanford. Mayunivesite awa samangokopa ophunzira ambiri - amakopa ophunzira abwino kwambiri ochokera m'dziko lonselo. Amabwera, kugwa m'chikondi ndi malo awa ndikukhala. Izi zimabweretsa kuchuluka kwa anthu atsopano komanso aluso.
Nkhondo Yachiwiri Yadziko Lonse isanachitike, omaliza maphunziro a Stanford awiri, Bill Hewlett ndi Dave Packard, adayambitsa Hewlett-Packard Innovation Company. Kenako mu 1948, bipolar transistor idapangidwa ku Bell Telephone Laboratories. Mmodzi mwa atatu omwe adalemba nawo zomwe adayambitsa, William Shockley, adaganiza zobwerera kwawo ku Palo Alto kuti akapeze kampani yake yaying'ono - Shockley Labs, zikuwoneka. Anatenga nawo pafupifupi akatswiri khumi ndi awiri a sayansi ya sayansi ndi opangira mankhwala, anthu odziwika kwambiri a m'badwo wawo. Pang’ono ndi pang’ono, anayamba kupatuka n’kupeza mabizinesi awoawo, monga mmene njere zamaluwa ndi udzu zimabalalika mbali zonse pamene mukuwaomba. Chotero Chigwacho chinabadwa.
Playboy: Munaidziwa bwanji kompyuta?
Ntchito: Mmodzi wa anansi athu anali Larry Lang, yemwe anali injiniya ku Hewlett-Packard. Anakhala nane nthawi yambiri, anandiphunzitsa zonse. Ndidawona koyamba kompyuta ku Hewlett-Packard. Lachiwiri lililonse ankakhala ndi magulu a ana ndipo ankatilola kugwira ntchito pa kompyuta. Ndinali pafupi zaka khumi ndi ziwiri zakubadwa, ndikukumbukira tsikuli bwino kwambiri. Anatiwonetsa kompyuta yawo yatsopano yapakompyuta ndipo anatilola kusewera pa iyo. Nthawi yomweyo ndinafuna zanga.
Playboy: Chifukwa chiyani kompyuta idakusangalatsani? Kodi munamva kuti muli lonjezo mmenemo?
Ntchito: Palibe chonga chimenecho, ndinangoganiza kuti kompyuta inali yabwino. Ndinkafuna kusangalala naye.
Playboy: Pambuyo pake mudagwira ntchito ku Hewlett-Packard, zidachitika bwanji?
Ntchito: Ndili ndi zaka khumi ndi ziwiri kapena khumi ndi zitatu, ndinkafuna magawo a ntchito. Ndinatenga foni n’kuyimbira Bill Hewlett—nambala yake inali m’buku la manambala la foni la Palo Alto. Anayankha foni ndipo anali wokoma mtima kwambiri. Tinacheza pafupifupi mphindi makumi awiri. Sanandidziwe nkomwe, koma adanditumizira magawowo ndikundiitanira kuti ndikagwire ntchito m'chilimwe - adandiyika pamzere wa msonkhano, komwe ndidasonkhanitsa zowerengera pafupipafupi. Mwina "kusonkhana" ndi mawu amphamvu kwambiri, ndinali kulimbitsa zomangira. Koma zinalibe kanthu, ndinali kumwamba.
Ndikukumbukira momwe tsiku loyamba la ntchito ndinali kusangalala ndi chidwi - pambuyo pake, ndinalembedwa ntchito ku Hewlett-Packard m'chilimwe chonse. Ndinali kuuza bwana wanga mosangalala, mnyamata wina dzina lake Chris, kuti ndinkakonda kwambiri zamagetsi kuposa china chilichonse padziko lapansi. Nditamufunsa chimene ankakonda kwambiri, Chris anandiyang’ana n’kuyankha kuti, “Kugonana.” [amaseka] Chakhala chirimwe cha maphunziro.
Playboy: Munakumana bwanji ndi Steve Wozniak?
Ntchito: Ndinakumana ndi Woz ndili ndi zaka khumi ndi zitatu m'garaji ya mnzanga. Iye anali pafupi zaka khumi ndi zisanu ndi zitatu zakubadwa. Iye anali munthu woyamba yemwe ndimamudziwa yemwe amadziwa bwino zamagetsi kuposa ine. Tinakhala mabwenzi apamtima chifukwa chokonda kwambiri makompyuta komanso nthabwala. Tinachita zopusa zotani!
Playboy: Mwachitsanzo?
Ntchito: [kulira] Palibe chapadera. Mwachitsanzo, iwo anapanga mbendera yaikulu ndi chimphona [akuwonetsa chala chapakati]. Tinkafuna kumasula mkati mwa mwambo womaliza maphunziro. Nthawi ina, Wozniak anasonkhanitsa chipangizo chamtundu wina, chofanana ndi bomba, n'kupita nacho kumalo odyera kusukulu. Tinapanganso mabokosi abuluu pamodzi.
Playboy: Kodi izi ndi zida zosaloledwa zomwe mutha kuyimbira mafoni akutali?
Ntchito: Ndendende. Chochitika chotchuka chokhudza iwo chinali pamene Woz adayitana Vatican ndikudzitcha Henry Kissinger. Anawadzutsa abambo pakati pausiku ndipo ndipamene anazindikira kuti chinali chibwana.
Playboy: Kodi munayamba mwalandirapo chilango chifukwa cha zopusa ngati zimenezi?
Ntchito: Ndinathamangitsidwa kusukulu kangapo.
Playboy: Kodi tinganene kuti "anayatsidwa" makompyuta?
Ntchito: Ndinachita chinthu chimodzi kenako china. Panali zambiri pozungulira. Nditawerenga Moby Dick kwa nthawi yoyamba, ndinalembetsanso maphunziro olembera. Pofika chaka changa chachikulu, ndinaloledwa kuthera theka la nthawi yanga ku Stanford ndikumvetsera nkhani.
Playboy: Kodi Wozniak anali ndi nthawi yayitali?
Ntchito: [amaseka] Inde, koma sanangotengeka maganizo ndi makompyuta. Ndikuganiza kuti ankakhala m'dziko lake lomwe palibe amene ankamvetsa. Palibe amene adagawana zomwe amakonda - anali patsogolo pang'ono pa nthawi yake. Poyamba ankasungulumwa kwambiri. Amayendetsedwa makamaka ndi malingaliro ake amkati okhudza dziko lapansi, osati ndi ziyembekezo za wina aliyense, kotero adapirira. Woz ndi ine ndife osiyana m'njira zambiri, koma mofanana m'njira zina komanso ogwirizana kwambiri. Tili ngati mapulaneti awiri okhala ndi njira zathu zomwe zimadutsana nthawi ndi nthawi. Sindikunena za makompyuta chabe—Ine ndi Woz tinakonda ndakatulo za Bob Dylan ndipo tinaziganizira kwambiri. Tinkakhala ku California - California yodzala ndi mzimu woyesera komanso womasuka, kutsegulira mwayi watsopano.
Kuwonjezera pa Dylan, ndinali wokondweretsedwa ndi machitidwe auzimu a Kum’maŵa, amene anali atangofika kumene kumaiko athu. Pamene ndinali ku Reed College ku Oregon, nthaŵi zonse tinali ndi anthu oimapo—Timothy Leary, Ram Dass, Gary Snyder. Nthawi zonse tinkadzifunsa mafunso okhudza cholinga cha moyo. Panthawiyo, wophunzira aliyense ku America anali kuwerenga Be Here Now, Diet for a Small Planet, ndi mabuku ena khumi ndi awiri ofanana. Tsopano simudzawapeza pamasukulu masana. Si zabwino kapena zoipa, ndi zosiyana tsopano. Malo awo anatengedwa ndi bukhu la “In Search of Excellence.”
Playboy: Kodi zonsezi zakukhudzani bwanji lero?
Ntchito: Nthawi yonseyi idandikhudza kwambiri. Zinali zoonekeratu kuti zaka za makumi asanu ndi limodzi zinali kumbuyo kwathu, ndipo okhulupirira ambiri anali asanakwaniritse zolinga zawo. Popeza anali atasiya kale mwambo, malo oyenera sanapezeke. Anzanga ambiri adakhazikitsa malingaliro azaka makumi asanu ndi limodzi, koma nawonso, kukana kugwira ntchito yogulitsira sitolo pazaka makumi anayi ndi zisanu, monga momwe zimachitikira kwa anzawo achikulire. Sikuti iyi ndi ntchito yosayenera, kungoti kuchita zinthu zomwe sizomwe mungakonde ndizomvetsa chisoni kwambiri.
Playboy: Pambuyo pa Reed, mudabwerera ku Silicon Valley ndikuyankha ku "Pangani Ndalama Pamene Mukusangalala" malonda omwe adadziwika.
Ntchito: Kulondola. Ndinkafuna kuyenda, koma ndinalibe ndalama zokwanira. Ndinabweranso kudzapeza ntchito. Ndinkayang'ana zotsatsa m'nyuzipepala ndipo m'modzi wa iwo anati, "Pezani ndalama mukusangalala." Ndinayimba. Zinapezeka kuti Atari. Ndinali ndisanagwirepo ntchito kulikonse, kupatulapo pamene ndinali wachinyamata. Mwa chozizwitsa, adandiyitana kuti andifunse mafunso mawa lake ndikundilemba ntchito.
Playboy: Iyi iyenera kukhala nthawi yakale kwambiri ya mbiri ya Atari.
Ntchito: Kupatula ine panali pafupifupi anthu makumi anayi kumeneko, kampaniyo inali yaing'ono kwambiri. Adapanga Pong ndi masewera ena awiri. Ndinapatsidwa ntchito yothandiza mnyamata wina dzina lake Don. Amapanga masewera owopsa a basketball. Pa nthawi yomweyi, wina anali kupanga simulator ya hockey. Chifukwa cha kupambana kodabwitsa kwa Pong, adayesa kutengera masewera awo onse pambuyo pamasewera osiyanasiyana.
Playboy: Panthawi imodzimodziyo, simunaiwale zolimbikitsa zanu - mumafunika ndalama kuti muyende.
Ntchito: Atari nthawi ina adatumiza masewera ku Europe, ndipo zidapezeka kuti anali ndi zolakwika zaukadaulo. Ndinalingalira momwe ndingawakonzere, koma zinayenera kuchitidwa pamanja - wina ayenera kupita ku Ulaya. Ndinadzipereka kupita kukapempha tchuthi ndi ndalama zanga pambuyo pa ulendo wamalonda. Otsogolera sanatsutse. Ndinapita ku Switzerland ndipo kuchokera kumeneko ndinapita ku New Delhi ndipo ndinakhala nthawi yambiri ku India.
Playboy: Kumeneko unameta mutu wako.
Ntchito: Sizinali choncho. Ndinkadutsa m’mapiri a Himalaya ndipo mwangozi ndinalowa m’chikondwerero chachipembedzo. Panali bambo - mkulu wolungama, woyera mtima woyang'anira chikondwererochi - ndi gulu lalikulu la otsatira ake. Ndinamva fungo la chakudya chokoma. Izi zisanachitike, ndinali ndisanamve fungo lokoma kwa nthawi yaitali, choncho ndinaganiza zongoima paphwandopo, ndikupereka ulemu wanga ndikudya zokhwasula-khwasula.
Ndinadya chakudya chamasana. Pazifukwa zina, mayiyu nthawi yomweyo anabwera kwa ine, n’kukhala pafupi nane n’kuyamba kuseka. Iye sankalankhula pafupifupi Chingelezi, ndinalankhula Chihindi pang'ono, koma tinkayesetsabe kulankhula. Anangoseka. Kenako anandigwira dzanja n’kundikokera m’kanjira ka m’phiri. Zinali zoseketsa - panali mazana a Amwenye ozungulira omwe adachokera kumtunda wamakilomita masauzande kuti azikhala ndi masekondi khumi ndi munthu uyu, ndipo ndidayendayenda ndikufunafuna chakudya, ndipo nthawi yomweyo adanditengera kumapiri.
Patatha theka la ola tinafika pamwamba. Panali kamtsinje kakang'ono kakuyenda pamenepo - mayiyo adandiviika mutu wanga m'madzi, adatulutsa lumo ndikuyamba kundimeta. Ndinadabwa. Ndili ndi zaka 19, ndili kudziko lina, kwinakwake kumapiri a Himalaya, ndipo munthu wina wanzeru wa ku India akumeta mutu wanga pamwamba pa phiri. Sindikumvetsabe chifukwa chake anachitira zimenezo.
Source: www.habr.com