{"id":54069,"date":"2019-12-17T00:00:00","date_gmt":"2019-12-16T21:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/blog\/blog_prohoster\/kubernetes-eto-novyj-linux-intervyu-s-pavlom-selivanovym"},"modified":"2020-02-18T14:02:02","modified_gmt":"2020-02-18T11:02:02","slug":"kubernetes-eto-novyj-linux-intervyu-s-pavlom-selivanovym","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/ro\/blog\/administrirovanie\/kubernetes-eto-novyj-linux-intervyu-s-pavlom-selivanovym","title":{"rendered":"Kubernetes \u2014 este acesta noul Linux? Interviu cu Pavel Selivanov","gt_translate_keys":[{"key":"rendered","format":"text"}]},"content":{"rendered":"

\r\n \"Reda\u021bi\r\n
<\/div>\r\n <\/div><\/center>
\nDecodare:
\nAzat Khadiev: Bun\u0103 ziua. M\u0103 numesc Azat Khadiev. Sunt dezvoltator \u00een direc\u021bia PaaS a Mail.ru Cloud Solutions. Al\u0103turi de mine se afl\u0103 Pavel Selivanov de la compania Southbridge. Ne afl\u0103m la conferin\u021ba DevOpsDays. El va sus\u021bine o prezentare despre cum putem construi DevOps cu Kubernetes, dar cel mai probabil nu ve\u021bi reu\u0219i. De ce o tem\u0103 at\u00e2t de sumbr\u0103?
\n<\/a><\/noindex>
\nPavel Selivanov: De fapt, nu este o tem\u0103 sumbr\u0103. Este vorba despre faptul c\u0103 multe probleme \u00een comunitatea noastr\u0103 \u00eencerc\u0103m s\u0103 le rezolv\u0103m prin tehnologie. \u0218i de multe ori \u00eencerc\u0103m s\u0103 le solu\u021bion\u0103m \u00eentr-un mod destul de monoton. Kubernetes este la fel \u2014 este o chestiune de care se ocup\u0103, se poate spune, Ops. Dar avem un concept minunat numit inginer DevOps. Inginerul DevOps se ocup\u0103 de Kubernetes. Totu\u0219i\u2026 De exemplu, voi face\u021bi Kubernetes, iar echipa Dev nu a auzit niciodat\u0103 despre toate aceste Kubernetes, nu \u0219tie ce poate face \u2014 \u0219i pentru ei totul func\u021bioneaz\u0103 exact la fel. \u0218i asta \u00een ciuda faptului c\u0103 Kubernetes con\u021bine solu\u021bii gata f\u0103cute, instrumente gata preg\u0103tite pentru a extinde acest concept DevOps, comunicarea \u00eentre Dev \u0219i Ops. Folosim foarte pu\u021bin aceast\u0103 oportunitate. Datorit\u0103 faptului c\u0103 chiar \u0219i structurile actuale le adapt\u0103m la toate aceste instrumente DevOps \u2014 Docker, Kubernetes, clouduri \u0219.a.m.d. \u2014 agravam \u0219i mai mult situa\u021bia. \u0218i \u00eencepem s\u0103 folosim instrumentele nu \u00een felul \u00een care au fost g\u00e2ndite. Iar \u00een jurul acestor tehnologii se construiesc doar solu\u021bii tentante. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: \u00cen\u021beleg. Se simte c\u0103 tema este ampl\u0103. Ce p\u0103rere ai despre cea mai comun\u0103 problem\u0103 cu care se confrunt\u0103 companiile acum? Cu Kubernetes.<\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Cea mai frecvent\u0103 problem\u0103 cu Kubernetes este lipsa competen\u021belor. Este o problem\u0103 comun\u0103 \u00een IT. \u00centotdeauna ne lipsesc speciali\u0219ti. \u00centotdeauna ne lipsesc competen\u021bele. Iar acum, cu Kubernetes, competen\u021bele sunt \u0219i mai pu\u021bine. \u0218i pe deasupra, exist\u0103 foarte pu\u021bine solu\u021bii gata f\u0103cute pe pia\u021b\u0103 care s\u0103 permit\u0103 ob\u021binerea Kubernetes f\u0103r\u0103 competen\u021bele necesare; acestea sunt desigur foarte pu\u021bine pe pia\u021b\u0103. Iar cele care exist\u0103 ridic\u0103 \u00eentreb\u0103ri. Constant suntem \u00een c\u0103utarea persoanelor care se pricep la Kubernetes. \u00cencerc\u0103m s\u0103 atragem dezvoltarea \u00een acest sens. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadievt: Av\u00e2nd \u00een vedere deficitul actual de personal \u00een IT, care a existat \u00eentotdeauna \u0219i exist\u0103 \u0219i acum, cum crezi c\u0103 este posibil s\u0103 tr\u0103ie\u0219ti \u00een aceste condi\u021bii? Ce sfaturi ai pentru a face fa\u021b\u0103? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Sfaturi. \u00cen primul r\u00e2nd, din perspectiva cloud-ului, sfatul ar suna astfel \u2014 s\u0103 ne predai o parte din competen\u021bele tale, iar noi le vom prelua \u0219i ne vom ocupa de ele \u00een interior. E totul bine, cu excep\u021bia c\u0103 este important s\u0103 \u00een\u021belegem, pentru cei care utilizeaz\u0103 acest serviciu\u2026 De fapt, este un moment excelent\u2026 Dar este crucial s\u0103 \u00een\u021belegem c\u0103, pred\u00e2nd o parte din competen\u021bele noastre c\u0103tre un cloud sau un furnizor, primim \u00een schimb o solu\u021bie universalizat\u0103. Cu alte cuvinte, avem o baz\u0103 de date care \u00eendepline\u0219te lucruri foarte specifice \u0219i a fost configurat\u0103 \u00een mod special. Pred\u00e2nd aceast\u0103 baz\u0103 de date \u00een cloud, bine\u00een\u021beles c\u0103 putem demite administratorul care se ocupa anterior de clusterele de baze de date \u2014 aceea\u0219i Amazon sau Google o va face pentru noi. Dar, \u00een acela\u0219i timp, aceea\u0219i Amazon sau Google nu ne vor permite s\u0103 configur\u0103m exact baza noastr\u0103 de date. Proiectele mari, companiile mari \u2014 \u00eentr-un anumit moment din via\u021ba lor folosesc solu\u021bii cloud, iar apoi, \u00een mod inevitabil, se \u00eentorc la preluarea competen\u021belor \u00eenapoi pentru c\u0103 e nevoie de ceva mai specific.<\/p>\n

Azat Khadievt: Sunt solu\u021biile universale rele sau se pot construi lucruri mai mari pe baza lor? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Nu, solu\u021biile universale nu sunt rele. Solu\u021biile universale sunt bune. Doar c\u0103 solu\u021biile universale \u2026 sunt universale. Aici este important s\u0103 \u00een\u021belegem. Este ca \u0219i cum ai lua un script general\u2026 Dac\u0103 \u00een jurul acestui script general, aplicabil \u00een mod general, po\u021bi construi \u00eentreaga logic\u0103 a func\u021bion\u0103rii companiei \u2014 este grozav. Dar dac\u0103 logica func\u021bion\u0103rii este alta, dar tu folose\u0219ti aceast\u0103 solu\u021bie universal\u0103, acest script universal \u2014 \u0219i \u00eencepi s\u0103-l adaptezi for\u021bat, este r\u0103u. \u00cen universalism nu este nimic r\u0103u. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadievt: Dac\u0103 administratorul t\u0103u deja lucreaz\u0103, problema nu este demiterea lui. El pur \u0219i simplu va putea face mai multe. <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Da, s\u0103-i elimin\u0103m rutina \u0219i s\u0103 o deleg\u0103m undeva, ca s\u0103 se ocupe cineva de ea. Acesta este, f\u0103r\u0103 \u00eendoial\u0103, un abordare bun\u0103. Un aspect important este dac\u0103 aceast\u0103 solu\u021bie standard se potrive\u0219te pentru cazul specific. <\/p>\n

Azat Hadiev: Pur \u0219i simplu, av\u00e2nd \u00een vedere experien\u021ba mea, observ c\u0103 multe companii fac acela\u0219i lucru. Ele configureaz\u0103 un cluster Kubernetes, se g\u00e2ndesc la scalabilitatea acestuia. \u0218i toate aceste opera\u021biuni sunt foarte repetitive. <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Da, f\u0103r\u0103 \u00eendoial\u0103. Mai ales c\u0103, dac\u0103 ne uit\u0103m specific la Kubernetes, exist\u0103 un aspect \u00een care cuno\u0219tin\u021bele profunde \u0219i bune despre Kubernetes sunt foarte rare pe pia\u021b\u0103. Kubernetes este un constructor gigantic, a\u0219a c\u0103 dac\u0103 l-ai luat \u00een companie, fii preg\u0103tit s\u0103 angajezi un inginer care s\u0103 se ocupe de toate aceste lucruri cu norm\u0103 \u00eentreag\u0103. \u0218i este scump. \u0218i, \u00een plus, e greu s\u0103 g\u0103se\u0219ti un astfel de inginer. C\u00e2nd vorbesc despre mine, nu prea \u00eemi plac solu\u021biile cloud, pentru c\u0103 \u00een\u021beleg destul de bine \u0219i profund cum func\u021bioneaz\u0103 Kubernetes. \u0218i adesea \u00een clouduri \u00eemi lipse\u0219te o func\u021bionalitate pe care o cer \u2014 iar ei \u00eemi spun \"Nu, nu se poate\". Ei bine, \u00een acest caz, scuza\u021bi-m\u0103, dar pot face mai bine dec\u00e2t un cloud. Dar, pe de alt\u0103 parte, dac\u0103 nu ai un inginer cu norm\u0103 \u00eentreag\u0103, nu ai dorin\u021ba de a pl\u0103ti pentru acel inginer care se ocup\u0103 de Kubernetes \u0219i \u00eei pl\u0103te\u0219ti constant mul\u021bi bani pentru a experimenta, atunci cloudul este pur \u0219i simplu o solu\u021bie excelent\u0103. Pentru c\u0103 acolo cel pu\u021bin sunt oameni pe care furnizorul \u00eensu\u0219i i-a angajat. \u0218i ei \u0219tiu ce fac. \u0218i lucrurile de baz\u0103 de care ai nevoie zilnic, se g\u0103sesc acolo.<\/p>\n

Azat Hadiev: Ce p\u0103rere ai despre starea actual\u0103 a Kubernetes? Ce va fi cu el \u00een cinci ani \u0219i \u00een zece ani?<\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: O \u00eentrebare bun\u0103. \u0218tiu doar ce se \u00eent\u00e2mpl\u0103 \u00een comunitatea noastr\u0103 \u00een leg\u0103tur\u0103 cu aceasta. Unii oameni cred c\u0103, \u00een afar\u0103 de Kubernetes, nu va mai r\u0103m\u00e2ne nimic. Situa\u021bia care s-a \u00eent\u00e2mplat demult cu Linux. Adic\u0103, \u00een afara Linux, exist\u0103 persoane care tr\u0103iesc pe BSD, probabil au sarcini foarte specifice. Exist\u0103 oameni care lucreaz\u0103 sub Windows \u2014 servere Windows \u2014 probabil \u0219i ei au sarcini specifice sau au pur \u0219i simplu competen\u021be \u00een acest domeniu \u0219i nu sunt preg\u0103ti\u021bi s\u0103 plece de acolo. Oricum, standardul \u00een domeniul nostru este Linux. Aceasta este o p\u0103rere c\u0103 Kubernetes va deveni un astfel de standard de facto, \u0219i c\u0103, \u00een afar\u0103 de Kubernetes, nu va mai fi nimic. Kubernetes va gestiona nu doar aplica\u021biile, desf\u0103\u0219urarea, implementarea, scalarea. De fapt, va gestiona totul. Acum se \u00eentreab\u0103 deja: \u201ePoate fi o baz\u0103 de date introdus\u0103 \u00een Kubernetes?\u201d. Eu, de obicei, spun c\u0103 aici nu este o problem\u0103 legat\u0103 de Kubernetes, ci de Docker. Dac\u0103 e\u0219ti preg\u0103tit ca baza ta de date s\u0103 func\u021bioneze \u00een containere, a\u0219a va func\u021biona. \u00cemi r\u0103spund: \u201eNu, nu, nu, a\u0219teapt\u0103. Nu trebuie \u00een containere. Trebuie \u00een Kubernetes. O vom lega de nod. Adic\u0103 totul va fi ca acum, doar c\u0103 totul va fi gestionat de Kubernetes.\u201d \u0218i, de fapt, aceasta este o idee bun\u0103. Adic\u0103, Kubernetes este un astfel de instrument, c\u00e2nd po\u021bi s\u0103 te al\u0103turi unei companii, dac\u0103 \u00een companie exist\u0103 Kubernetes \u0219i procese construite pe el, atunci pentru cineva care se pricepe, este suficient s\u0103 priveasc\u0103 c\u00e2teva zile pentru a spune: \u201eSunt preg\u0103tit s\u0103 v\u0103 sus\u021bin. Complet. Totul. Am \u00een\u021beles cum func\u021bioneaz\u0103.\u201d Spre deosebire de abord\u0103rile f\u0103r\u0103 Kubernetes \u2014 aici s-au pus c\u00e2teva \u201esprijinuri\u201d, aici altele. Aici Ansible, aici Terraform. Cineva a scris totul asta, \u0219i este nevoie de \u0219ase luni pentru a te familiariza. A\u0219adar, dac\u0103 va deveni Kubernetes un standard de facto, nu \u0219tiu. \u00cen ziua de ast\u0103zi, arat\u0103 mult mai ambi\u021bios \u0219i mai sigur dec\u00e2t solu\u021biile care exist\u0103 \u00een jurul s\u0103u. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Ei bine, compara\u021bia cu Linux este destul de \u00eendr\u0103znea\u021b\u0103. Acesta func\u021bioneaz\u0103 pe o singur\u0103 ma\u0219in\u0103 \u2014 \u0219i at\u00e2t. Dar Kubernetes func\u021bioneaz\u0103 pe multe ma\u0219ini. Immediat apar milioane de varia\u021bii, motive. Da, este \u00eendr\u0103zne\u021b. Numai c\u0103 trebuie avut \u00een vedere c\u0103 exist\u0103 competitori pentru aceast\u0103 paradigm\u0103. De exemplu, Serverless. Este Kubernetes \u00een pericol \u00een fa\u021ba acestor competitori? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: De la Serverless\u2026 (r\u00e2de) Serverless \u2014 trebuie s\u0103 \u00een\u021belegem c\u0103 server<\/a> de fapt exist\u0103. Recent am auzit o prezentare pe aceast\u0103 tem\u0103. Oamenii au spus c\u0103 serverele exist\u0103 \u2014 \u0219i aceasta este cloudul. Dar trebuie s\u0103 \u00een\u021belegem \u00eentotdeauna c\u0103 \u00een cloud exist\u0103 de asemenea servere. Sunt servere fizice, rack-uri, care sunt instalate undeva. Asta este cloudul. Deasupra acestuia exist\u0103 Serverless, unde servere<\/a> nu sunt. A\u0219adar, \u00eentrebarea este, va \u00eenvinge Serverless Kubernetes? Cred c\u0103 Serverless va migrat \u00een Kubernetes. Pentru furnizorii care ofer\u0103 Serverless, Kubernetes este o platform\u0103 foarte convenabil\u0103 pentru a oferi acest serviciu. Da, este posibil ca la un moment dat s\u0103 nu mai vorbim despre Kubernetes \u00een general, ca despre dezvoltarea standard a aplica\u021biilor de business. Dar undeva, \u00een profunzime, furnizorii \u0219i inginerii vor continua s\u0103 aib\u0103 Kubernetes, unde toate acestea vor fi implementate. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: O tem\u0103 pu\u021bin diferit\u0103. Exist\u0103 un concept numit inginer fullstack. Ce p\u0103rere ai despre ace\u0219tia? Exist\u0103 cu adev\u0103rat? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Eh\u2026 Inginer fullstack\u2026 Cred c\u0103 ar trebui s\u0103 delimit\u0103m aceste lucruri. \u0218tii, exist\u0103 un concept numit oameni \u00een form\u0103 de T. Au nevoie de astfel de persoane \u00een industria de ast\u0103zi? Da, f\u0103r\u0103 \u00eendoial\u0103. Ne trebuie persoane care au o viziune larg\u0103, dar \u00een acela\u0219i timp sunt speciali\u0219ti \u00eentr-un domeniu restr\u00e2ns. A\u0219adar, un inginer fullstack se potrive\u0219te aici \u2014 o persoan\u0103 care face totul. \u00cencep\u00e2nd de la dezvoltarea frontend-ului, testare, backend, servere \u0219i tot restul. Nu cred c\u0103 \u00eentr-o companie mare poate face o singur\u0103 persoan\u0103 acest lucru f\u0103r\u0103 a avea specializ\u0103ri restr\u00e2nse pe fiecare dintre parametrii. Dar, \u00een acela\u0219i timp, av\u00e2nd doar o specializare restr\u00e2ns\u0103, f\u0103r\u0103 s\u0103 \u0219tie ce se \u00eent\u00e2mpl\u0103 \u00een jur, de asemenea, nu func\u021bioneaz\u0103 \u00een lumea modern\u0103. Deci, a\u0219 spune\u2026 a\u0219 elimina cuv\u00e2ntul Fullstack. Avem nevoie de ingineri foarte buni. Avem nevoie de DevOps. Simt c\u0103 \u00een cur\u00e2nd vom reconsidera acest aspect. \u0218i nu vor mai fi necesari. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Po\u021bi detalia? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Mi se pare c\u0103 \u00een industrie vom ajunge \u00een punctul \u00een care rolurile Dev \u0219i Ops vor disp\u0103rea \u00een cur\u00e2nd. Dac\u0103 avem nevoie de speciali\u0219ti \u0219i recrut\u0103m... Avem nevoie de un anumit tip de dezvoltator, avem nevoie de administratori, avem nevoie de ingineri DevOps \u2014 acum ace\u0219tia sunt la noi, iar \u00een cur\u00e2nd vor ap\u0103rea \u0219i ingineri de produc\u021bie, ingineri SRE. De fapt, ceea ce ne trebuie sunt ingineri pe care vrem s\u0103-i angaj\u0103m. Experien\u021ba anterioar\u0103 nu este at\u00e2t de important\u0103. Pentru c\u0103... De exemplu, un SRE spune c\u0103 problemele de infrastructur\u0103 sunt \u00eentotdeauna legate de software. De ce nu... Hai s\u0103 angaj\u0103m dezvoltatori \u2014 din perspectiva c\u0103 un dezvoltator este un inginer \u2014 s\u0103-i integr\u0103m \u00een departamentul de suport \u0219i vor rezolva aceste probleme exact a\u0219a cum rezolv\u0103 problemele de business prin cod, prin inginerie, \u00een general. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadieff: \u0218i din acest punct de vedere... Cum se desf\u0103\u0219oar\u0103 interviurile pentru astfel de ingineri? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Oh, that's a good question. It probably goes beyond what I understand in this life. But let me give you an example. It doesn't relate to the interview. It\u2019s about our education system in Russia. In IT, we know that our education system in Russia is very outdated for the IT world; it's not what it should be. I'm generally talking about the vastness of Russia \u2014 and what's happening there. People are graduating who are completely unprepared to go into web development or a tech company right after graduation. And that's a problem. We teach them some strange things, when actually we should be teaching them how to develop for Android, for iOS, how to use Git, and all that. In reality, it seems that's not the case. The university is a time when, for the most part, your parents pay for you. For your whole life. And you can dedicate five years of your life to studying in depth. And learn all this T-shaped knowledge. At university, you can learn what version control systems are, what development patterns there are, how to test everything, what databases and load balancers exist. But when you start working, you begin to specialize in a specific area. And this way, we produce engineers. And our education system in Russia is much closer to this truth than we think. We are given a solid mathematical foundation, a good understanding of algorithms, and some insight into programming languages. And regarding the interview, I think it's something close to that. We need to interview engineers. We need the upper part of the T in T-shaped. Because they will acquire the vertical line of the T. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadieff: Yes, interesting. For five years after university, I felt that my education was strange and inadequate. But then, as I worked and faced deeper tasks, with bigger projects, I realized I was taught very important things. Pavel, thank you. It was very interesting to hear your responses. Let\u2019s listen to your presentation. <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Thank you.
\n
Sursa: habr.com<\/a><\/p>","protected":false,"gt_translate_keys":[{"key":"rendered","format":"html"}]},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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