{"id":54069,"date":"2019-12-17T00:00:00","date_gmt":"2019-12-16T21:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/blog\/blog_prohoster\/kubernetes-eto-novyj-linux-intervyu-s-pavlom-selivanovym"},"modified":"2020-02-18T14:02:02","modified_gmt":"2020-02-18T11:02:02","slug":"kubernetes-eto-novyj-linux-intervyu-s-pavlom-selivanovym","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/sl\/blog\/administrirovanie\/kubernetes-eto-novyj-linux-intervyu-s-pavlom-selivanovym","title":{"rendered":"Je Kubernetes nov Linux? Intervju s Pavlom Selivanovim","gt_translate_keys":[{"key":"rendered","format":"text"}]},"content":{"rendered":"

\r\n \"Predvajaj\r\n
<\/div>\r\n <\/div><\/center>
\nRazlaga:
\nAzat Khadiev: Pozdravljeni. Moje ime je Azat Khadiev. Sem razvijalec PaaS podro\u010dja Mail.ru Cloud Solutions. Tukaj je z menoj Pavel Selivanov iz podjetja Southbridge. Nahajava se na konferenci DevOpsDays. On bo tukaj predstavil poro\u010dilo o tem, kako z Kubernetesom lahko zgradimo DevOps, toda verjetno vam ne bo uspelo. Zakaj tak\u0161na temna tema?
\n<\/a><\/noindex>
\nPavel Selivanov: Dejansko ni temna. Gre za to, da mnoge te\u017eave v na\u0161i skupnosti posku\u0161amo re\u0161iti s tehnologijami. In ravno tako posku\u0161amo re\u0161evati s tehnologijami precej enostransko. Kubernetes je prav tako stvar, za katero odgovarjajo, lahko bi rekli, Ops. A imamo lepo pojmovanje DevOps in\u017eenirja. Za Kubernetes odgovarja DevOps in\u017eenir. Hkrati\u2026 Tipi\u010dno, naredite Kubernetes, Dev tipi sploh niso na teko\u010dem z vsemi temi kubernetes stvarmi, niso seznanjeni s tem, kar omogo\u010da \u2014 in vse zanje ostaja enako. In to kljub temu, da Kubernetes vsebuje pripravljene re\u0161itve, pripravljene instrumente za raz\u0161iritev tega DevOps pristopa, komunikacijo med Dev in Ops. To mo\u017enost zelo malo uporabljamo. Zaradi tega, ker celo trenutne strukture prena\u0161amo na vse te DevOps instrumente \u2014 Docker, Kubernetes, oblake in tako naprej \u2014 \u0161e bolj poglablja to situacijo. In orodja za\u010dnemo uporabljati ne tako, kot so bila zami\u0161ljena. In okoli vseh teh tehnologij se ti\u0161\u010dijo grozljive palice. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Jasno. \u010cutiti je, da je tema obse\u017ena. Kako misli\u0161, kak\u0161na je najpogostej\u0161a te\u017eava pri podjetjih danes? S Kubernetesom.<\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Z Kubernetesom je najpogostej\u0161a te\u017eava \u2014 pomanjkanje kompetenc. V IT je to raz\u0161irjena te\u017eava. Vedno primanjkuje strokovnjakov. Vedno primanjkuje kompetenc. In sedaj s Kubernetesom primanjkuje kompetenc. Hkrati pa je na trgu zelo malo 100% pripravljenih re\u0161itev, ki bi omogo\u010dale pridobitev Kubernetes, ne da bi imele potrebne kompetence. Tiste, ki so, spro\u017eajo vrsto vpra\u0161anj. Nenehno i\u0161\u010demo ljudi, ki se spoznajo na Kubernetes. Posku\u0161amo pritegniti razvoj k temu. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Considering the current talent shortage in IT, which has always existed and still does, how do you think one can navigate these conditions? What are some life hacks? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Life hacks. First, from the perspective of cloud services, a life hack looks like this \u2014 how about you hand over part of your competencies to us? We'll take them on and manage them internally. It sounds good. Except it\u2019s important to understand for those who use this\u2026 It\u2019s actually a wonderful moment\u2026 But you need to realize that by giving part of your competencies to a cloud or provider, we receive a universal solution in return. To put it simply, we have a database that performs very specific tasks and has been very specifically configured. By moving this database to the cloud, we can indeed let go of the admin who used to manage the database clusters \u2014 Amazon or Google can do that for us. However, Amazon and Google will not allow us to finely tune our database. Large projects, large companies \u2014 they eventually come to the point where they use cloud solutions, but later, they revert to reclaiming their competencies because they need something more specific.<\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Are universal solutions bad, or can more be built on their basis? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: No, universal solutions are definitely not bad. Universal solutions are good. They are just universal. It\u2019s important to understand this. It\u2019s like taking a general script\u2026 If you can build the entire logic of the company around that general script and its general application \u2014 then that\u2019s great. But if the logic of the work is different, and you take this universal solution, a universal script \u2014 and try to force-fit it like a owl on a globe, that\u2019s bad. There\u2019s nothing wrong with universalism itself. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: If this admin is already working for you, it\u2019s not about his dismissal. He\u2019ll simply be able to do more. <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Yes, taking the routine off his plate and giving it to someone else to handle is certainly a good approach. The important question here is whether this standardized solution fits the specific case. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Based on my experience, I see that many companies are doing the same thing. They set up a Kubernetes cluster and think about its scalability. All these operations are very repetitive. <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Yes, absolutely. Moreover, if we take Kubernetes specifically, there's a point that there is currently a shortage of deep, good knowledge about Kubernetes in the market. Kubernetes is such a huge constructor that if you bring it into a company, be ready to bring in an engineer who will manage it full-time. And that\u2019s expensive. Plus, finding such an engineer is a challenge. Speaking for myself, I don\u2019t particularly like cloud solutions because I understand Kubernetes quite well and deeply. I often find some functionality lacking in the clouds that I request \u2014 and I\u2019m told, 'No, it\u2019s not possible.' In that case, sorry, but I can do better than the cloud. However, if you don't have a full-time engineer and don\u2019t want to pay for one who manages Kubernetes, consistently paying them a lot of money for just experimenting, then the cloud is simply a great solution. Because at least there are people who the provider has already hired and who know what they are doing. And the basic things you need on a daily basis are available there.<\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: What are your thoughts on the current state of Kubernetes? What will happen to it in five and ten years?<\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Dobro pitanje. Jednostavno znam \u0161ta se de\u0161ava u na\u0161em zajedni\u0161tvu povodom toga. Neki ljudi veruju da osim Kubernetesa vi\u0161e ni\u0161ta ne\u0107e ostati. Situacija koja se davno desila sa Linuxima. Dakle, van Linuxa ima ljudi koji \u017eive na BSD-u, najverovatnije imaju vrlo specifi\u010dne zadatke. Ima ljudi koji rade na Windows-u \u2014 windows serveri \u2014 najverovatnije, i oni imaju specifi\u010dne zadatke, ili jednostavno imaju kompetenciju u tome i ne \u017eele da se preseljavaju. U svakom slu\u010daju, standard u na\u0161oj oblasti je Linux. Postoji mi\u0161ljenje da \u0107e Kubernetes postati takav standard de facto, i da osim Kubernetesa vi\u0161e ni\u0161ta ne\u0107e biti. Kubernetes \u0107e upravljati ne samo aplikacijama, njihovim raspore\u0111ivanjem, deploy-om, skaliranjem. U stvari, svime \u0107e upravljati. Ve\u0107 se sada postavlja pitanje: \u201eDa li mo\u017eemo u Kubernetes staviti bazu podataka?\u201d. Obi\u010dno govorim da ovde pitanje nije u Kubernetesu, ve\u0107 u Docker-u. Ako ste spremni da va\u0161a baza podataka radi u kontejnerima, kako \u0107e ona raditi. Odgovaraju mi: \u201eNe-ne-ne, sa\u010dekajte. Ne treba u kontejnerima. Potrebno je u Kubernetes. Poveza\u0107emo je sa nodom. Dakle, sve \u0107e biti kao sada, samo \u0107e tim svime upravljati Kubernetes.\u201d I to je zapravo dobra ideja. Dakle, Kubernetes je takva stvar, kada mo\u017eete do\u0107i u kompaniju, ako u kompaniji postoji Kubernetes i procesi izgra\u0111eni na njemu, osobi koja se u tome razume \u2014 dovoljno je da pogleda par dana, da ka\u017ee: \u201eSpreman sam da vas podr\u017eim. Potpuno. U potpunosti. Razumeo sam kako vam \u0161ta funkcioni\u0161e.\u201d Za razliku od pristupa bez Kubernetesa \u2014 ovde su jedni \u0161take ubacili, ovde druge \u0161take. Ovde Ansible, ovde Terraform. Neko je to sve napisao, i potrebno je pola godine da se razume. Tako da, ho\u0107e li Kubernetes postati standard de facto, ne znam. Na trenutni dan izgleda mnogo ambicioznije i sigurnije nego re\u0161enja koja postoje oko njega. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Pa, pore\u0111enje sa Linux-om je prili\u010dno hrabro. On radi na jednoj ma\u0161ini \u2014 i to je to. A Kubernetes radi na vi\u0161e ma\u0161ina. Odmah se pojavljuje milion varijacija, razloga. Da, to je hrabro. Samo ako uzmemo u obzir da postoje konkurenti toj paradigmi. Na primer, Serverless. Da li je Kubernetes u opasnosti pred takvim konkurentima? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: O Serverless\u2026 (smeh) Serverless \u2014 vendar moramo razumeti, da stre\u017enika<\/a> vendar obstajajo. Pred kratkim sem sli\u0161al govor, v katerem je oseba rekla, da stre\u017eniki vendar obstajajo \u2014 in to je oblak. A vedno moramo razumeti, da v oblaku \u2014 so tudi stre\u017eniki. Tam stojijo pravi fizi\u010dni stre\u017eniki, omara, in nekje so name\u0161\u010deni. To je oblak. Nad tem obstaja Serverless, kjer stre\u017enikov<\/a> \u201eni\u201c. Zato se postavlja vpra\u0161anje, ali bo Serverless premagal Kubernetes? Zdi se mi, da bo Serverless pre\u0161el na Kubernetes. Za ponudnike, ki nudijo Serverless, je Kubernetes zelo prirodna platforma za to. Da, morda bomo v nekem trenutku prenehali govoriti o Kubernetesu na splo\u0161no, kot o obi\u010dajni razvijalni platformi za poslovne aplikacije. Ampak v ozadju, pri ponudnikih in in\u017eenirjih bo stal Kubernetes, kjer bo vse to realizirano. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Malce druga\u010dna tema. Obstaja pojem fullstack in\u017eenir. Kaj misli\u0161 o njih? Ali sploh obstajajo? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Hmm\u2026 Fullstack in\u017eenir\u2026 Zdi se mi, da bi morali razmejiti te stvari, ker\u2026 Ve\u0161, obstaja taki koncept kot T-shaped people. Ali so taki ljudje potrebni v dana\u0161nji industriji? Da, zagotovo so potrebni. Potrebujemo ljudi, ki imajo \u0161iroko znanje, a hkrati so strokovnjaki na svojem o\u017ejem podro\u010dju. In tukaj je Fullstack in\u017eenir prav tako \u2014 oseba, ki po\u010dne vse. Od razvoja frontenda, testiranja, backend, stre\u017enikov in vsega ostalega. Ne verjamem, da lahko v veliki podjetju to dela ena oseba, ne da bi imela ozke specializacije za vsak parameter. Hkrati pa imeti samo ozko specializacijo, tipa \u201eokoli tega se dogaja, ne vem ni\u010d\u201c \u2014 to v sodobnem svetu prav tako ne deluje. Torej tukaj bi rekel\u2026 besedo Fullstack bi spustil. Potrebujemo in\u017eenirje zelo. Potrebujemo DevOps. \u010cutim, da bomo kmalu predelali ta trenutek. In ti morda ne bodo potrebni. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Lahko to razlo\u017ei\u0161? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Mislim da \u0107emo u industriji do\u0107i do trenutka kada \u0107e ove Dev i Ops uloge skoro nestati. Ako nam trebaju stru\u010dnjaci i tra\u017eimo... Trebaju nam takvi programeri, potrebni su nam takvi administratori, potrebni su nam DevOps in\u017eenjeri \u2014 sada su oni kod nas, uskoro \u0107e se pojaviti i produkcijski in\u017eenjeri, SRE in\u017eenjeri. Iako, zapravo, ono \u0161to nam treba su in\u017eenjeri koje \u017eelimo zaposliti. Pozadina u ve\u0107ini slu\u010dajeva nije va\u017ena. Zato \u0161to... Na primjer, SRE ka\u017ee da su problemi infrastrukture uvijek softverski prirode. Pa, hajde da zapo\u0161ljavamo programere \u2014 s obzirom na to da je programer in\u017eenjer \u2014 da ih smjestimo u odjel za podr\u0161ku i oni \u0107e rje\u0161avati te probleme upravo onako kako rje\u0161avaju poslovne probleme putem koda, putem in\u017eenjeringa, kao takvog. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadieva: A s te ta\u010dke gledi\u0161ta... Kako intervjuisati takve in\u017eenjere? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Oh, that's a good question. It's probably beyond what I understand in this life. But let me give you an example. It's not related to interviews. It\u2019s about our education system in Russia. In IT, we know that our education system in Russia is very outdated for the IT world; it's not what it should be. I'm speaking generally about vast Russia \u2014 and what's happening there. Graduates are released who are absolutely unprepared to step into web development or a tech company the day after graduation. And that's a problem. We teach them some strange things when we should be teaching them how to develop for Android, for iOS, how to use Git, and all those things. In reality, it seems we don\u2019t. College is a time when mostly your parents pay for you. For your entire life. And you can devote five years of your life to studying deeply. And learn all this T-shaped knowledge. When you could be studying in college what a version control system is, what development patterns exist, how to test everything, what databases and load balancers are there. And when you start working, you begin to deepen your knowledge in a specific area. And that's how we produce engineers. And our education system in Russia is much closer to this reality than we think. We receive a good mathematical education, a solid algorithmic foundation, and some understanding of programming languages. And about interviews, I think it\u2019s something close to this. We need to interview engineers. We need the upper part of the letter T in T-shaped. Because the vertical stroke of the T will be acquired later. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Yes, interesting. For five years after college, I felt that my education was somehow strange and inadequate. But then, as I progressed in my work, when the tasks became deeper, and the projects larger, I realized that no, I was taught very important things. Pavel, thank you. It was very interesting to listen to your answers. Let's hear your presentation. <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Thank you.
\n
Izvor: habr.com<\/a><\/p>","protected":false,"gt_translate_keys":[{"key":"rendered","format":"html"}]},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

\u0420\u0430\u0441\u0448\u0438\u0444\u0440\u043e\u0432\u043a\u0430: \u0410\u0437\u0430\u0442 \u0425\u0430\u0434\u0438\u0435\u0432: \u0417\u0434\u0440\u0430\u0432\u0441\u0442\u0432\u0443\u0439\u0442\u0435. \u041c\u0435\u043d\u044f \u0437\u043e\u0432\u0443\u0442 \u0410\u0437\u0430\u0442 \u0425\u0430\u0434\u0438\u0435\u0432. \u042f \u0440\u0430\u0437\u0440\u0430\u0431\u043e\u0442\u0447\u0438\u043a PaaS \u043d\u0430\u043f\u0440\u0430\u0432\u043b\u0435\u043d\u0438\u044f Mail.ru Cloud Solutions. \u0421\u043e \u043c\u043d\u043e\u0439 \u0437\u0434\u0435\u0441\u044c \u041f\u0430\u0432\u0435\u043b \u0421\u0435\u043b\u0438\u0432\u0430\u043d\u043e\u0432 \u0438\u0437 \u043a\u043e\u043c\u043f\u0430\u043d\u0438\u0438 Southbridge. \u041c\u044b \u043d\u0430\u0445\u043e\u0434\u0438\u0442\u0441\u044f \u043d\u0430 \u043a\u043e\u043d\u0444\u0435\u0440\u0435\u043d\u0446\u0438\u0438 DevOpsDays. \u041e\u043d \u0437\u0434\u0435\u0441\u044c \u0432\u044b\u0441\u0442\u0443\u043f\u0438\u0442 \u0441 \u0434\u043e\u043a\u043b\u0430\u0434\u043e\u043c \u043e \u0442\u043e\u043c, \u0447\u0442\u043e \u0441 Kubernetes \u043c\u043e\u0436\u043d\u043e \u043f\u043e\u0441\u0442\u0440\u043e\u0438\u0442\u044c DevOps, \u043d\u043e \u0441\u043a\u043e\u0440\u0435\u0435 \u0432\u0441\u0435\u0433\u043e \u0443 \u0432\u0430\u0441 \u043d\u0438\u0447\u0435\u0433\u043e \u043d\u0435 \u043f\u043e\u043b\u0443\u0447\u0438\u0442\u0441\u044f. \u041f\u043e\u0447\u0435\u043c\u0443 \u0442\u0430\u043a\u0430\u044f \u043c\u0440\u0430\u0447\u043d\u0430\u044f \u0442\u0435\u043c\u0430? \u041f\u0430\u0432\u0435\u043b \u0421\u0435\u043b\u0438\u0432\u0430\u043d\u043e\u0432: […]<\/p>\n","protected":false,"gt_translate_keys":[{"key":"rendered","format":"html"}]},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[688],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-54069","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-administrirovanie"],"aioseo_notices":[],"aioseo_head":"\n\t\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\n","aioseo_head_json":{"title":"\ud83e\udd47Kubernetes \u2014 is it the new Linux? 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