{"id":54069,"date":"2019-12-17T00:00:00","date_gmt":"2019-12-16T21:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/blog\/blog_prohoster\/kubernetes-eto-novyj-linux-intervyu-s-pavlom-selivanovym"},"modified":"2020-02-18T14:02:02","modified_gmt":"2020-02-18T11:02:02","slug":"kubernetes-eto-novyj-linux-intervyu-s-pavlom-selivanovym","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/prohoster.info\/sq\/blog\/administrirovanie\/kubernetes-eto-novyj-linux-intervyu-s-pavlom-selivanovym","title":{"rendered":"Kubernetes \u2014 \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb Linux i ri? Intervist\u00eb me Pavel Selivanov","gt_translate_keys":[{"key":"rendered","format":"text"}]},"content":{"rendered":"

\r\n \"Luaj\r\n
<\/div>\r\n <\/div><\/center>
\nShkurtim:
\nAzat Khadiyev: Mir\u00eb se vini. Un\u00eb quhem Azat Khadiyev. Jam zhvillues n\u00eb departamentin PaaS t\u00eb Mail.ru Cloud Solutions. M\u00eb i pranish\u00ebm k\u00ebtu \u00ebsht\u00eb Pavel Selivanov nga kompania Southbridge. Jemi n\u00eb konferenc\u00ebn DevOpsDays. Ai do t\u00eb b\u00ebj\u00eb nj\u00eb referat mbi mund\u00ebsit\u00eb e nd\u00ebrtimit t\u00eb DevOps me Kubernetes, por ndoshta nuk do t\u00eb funksionoj\u00eb p\u00ebr ju. Pse nj\u00eb tem\u00eb kaq pesimiste?
\n<\/a><\/noindex>
\nPavel Selivanov: N\u00eb fakt, ajo nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb kaq pesimiste. Ajo flet p\u00ebr problemet q\u00eb p\u00ebrpiqemi t'i zgjidhim n\u00eb komunitetin ton\u00eb p\u00ebrmes teknologjive. Dhe ne p\u00ebrpiqemi t'i zgjidhim ato n\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb mjaft nj\u00ebanshme. Kubernetes, po ashtu, \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb sistem q\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb p\u00ebrgjegj\u00ebs, mund t\u00eb thuash, p\u00ebr Ops. Por kemi nj\u00eb koncept t\u00eb shk\u00eblqyer: Inxhinier DevOps. K\u00ebtu p\u00ebrgjegj\u00ebs p\u00ebr Kubernetes \u00ebsht\u00eb inxhinieri DevOps. Nd\u00ebrsa\u2026 Tipikisht ju krijoni Kubernetes, nd\u00ebrsa djemt\u00eb e Dev nuk jan\u00eb n\u00eb dijeni p\u00ebr t\u00eb gjitha k\u00ebto kubernetes, nuk e din\u00eb se \u00e7far\u00eb lejon t\u00eb b\u00ebsh \u2014 dhe gjith\u00e7ka p\u00ebr ta jeton n\u00eb t\u00eb nj\u00ebjt\u00ebn m\u00ebnyr\u00eb. Dhe k\u00ebt\u00eb pavar\u00ebsisht se Kubernetes p\u00ebrmban zgjidhje t\u00eb gatshme, mjete t\u00eb gatshme p\u00ebr t\u00eb p\u00ebrdorur k\u00ebt\u00eb teknologji p\u00ebr t\u00eb shp\u00ebrndar\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb qasje DevOps, komunikimin midis Dev dhe Ops. Ne p\u00ebrdorim shum\u00eb pak k\u00ebt\u00eb mund\u00ebsi. Pavar\u00ebsisht se struktura aktuale p\u00ebrkthehet mbi t\u00eb gjitha k\u00ebto mjete DevOps \u2014 Docker, Kubernetes, cloud etj. \u2014 ne e p\u00ebrkeq\u00ebsojm\u00eb edhe m\u00eb shum\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb situat\u00eb. Dhe fillojm\u00eb t\u00eb p\u00ebrdorim mjete q\u00eb nuk jan\u00eb menduar p\u00ebr m\u00ebnyr\u00ebn si po i p\u00ebrdorim. Rreth t\u00eb gjitha k\u00ebtyre teknologjive jan\u00eb nd\u00ebrtuar thjesht mb\u00ebshtetje t\u00eb frikshme. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiyev: E qart\u00eb. Ndjehet se tema \u00ebsht\u00eb e gjer\u00eb. Si mendon, cila \u00ebsht\u00eb problemi m\u00eb i zakonsh\u00ebm q\u00eb kan\u00eb kompanit\u00eb tani? Me Kubernetes.<\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Problemi m\u00eb i zakonsh\u00ebm me Kubernetes \u00ebsht\u00eb mungesa e kompetencave. N\u00eb IT kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb problem i zakonsh\u00ebm. Mungojn\u00eb gjithmon\u00eb specialist\u00ebt. Mungojn\u00eb gjithmon\u00eb kompetencat. Dhe tani me Kubernetes shum\u00eb kompetenca mungojn\u00eb. P\u00ebrve\u00e7 k\u00ebsaj, ka shum\u00eb pak zgjidhje 100% t\u00eb gatshme n\u00eb treg q\u00eb mund\u00ebsojn\u00eb q\u00eb t\u00eb kesh Kubernetes pa pasur kompetencat e nevojshme. Dhe ato q\u00eb ekzistojn\u00eb, ngjallin shum\u00eb pyetje. Vazhdimisht jemi n\u00eb k\u00ebrkim t\u00eb njer\u00ebzve q\u00eb kuptojn\u00eb Kubernetes. Po p\u00ebrpiqemi t\u00eb t\u00ebrheqim zhvillimin p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiyev: Considering the current staff shortage in IT, which has always existed and is still present, how do you think one can navigate these conditions? What are some life hacks? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Life hacks. Firstly, from the perspective of the cloud, a life hack looks like this\u2014why don't you transfer part of your competencies to us? We'll take them and manage them internally. And that's all good. Except for the fact that it's important for those who use this... It's actually a great moment... But it's crucial to understand that by giving away part of your competencies to the cloud or provider, we receive a universal solution in return. To put it bluntly, we may have a database that performs very specific tasks, and it was configured very specifically. By moving this database to the cloud, we can certainly let go of the admin who used to manage the database clusters\u2014Amazon or Google will do it for us. However, the same Amazon or Google won\u2019t allow us to configure our database precisely. Large projects, large companies eventually find themselves using cloud solutions at some stage of their existence and then inevitably return to reclaim their competencies because more specificity is needed.<\/p>\n

Azat Khadiyev: Are universal solutions bad, or can more be built on their foundation? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: No, universal solutions are certainly not bad. Universal solutions are good. They are just universal. It's important to understand this. It's like taking a general script\u2026 If you can build the entire operational logic of a company around this general script and its common applications\u2014then that\u2019s great. But if the logic is different, and you take this universal solution, this universal script, and start to force it into a different context, that\u2019s bad. There\u2019s nothing inherently wrong with universalism. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiyev: If this admin is already working for you, the issue is not his dismissal. He will simply be able to accomplish more. <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Yes, taking away the routine from him to hand it over to someone else, so that it can be done elsewhere, is undoubtedly a good approach. An important point here is whether this standard solution fits the specific case. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Simple based on my experience, I see that many companies are engaged in the same activities. They set up a Kubernetes cluster, thinking about its scaling. And all these operations are very repetitive. <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Yes, absolutely. Especially since if we take Kubernetes specifically, there is a point that deep, good knowledge of Kubernetes is currently really scarce in the market. And Kubernetes is such a gigantic constructor that if you bring it into a company, be ready to also bring in an engineer who will work full-time on it. And that\u2019s expensive. And that engineer can be hard to find. If I talk about myself, I don\u2019t really like cloud solutions because I understand very well and deeply how Kubernetes works. And often, in the clouds, I lack certain functionalities that I request \u2014 and I\u2019m told \"No, that\u2019s not possible.\" Well, in that case, sorry, but I can do better than the cloud. But at the same time, if you don\u2019t have a full-time engineer, and you don\u2019t want to pay for the engineer who manages Kubernetes, and you\u2019re constantly paying him a lot just for experimentation, then the cloud is simply a great solution. Because at least there are guys there whom the provider has already recruited. And they know what they are doing. And the basic things you need on a daily basis are there.<\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: What do you think about the current state of Kubernetes? What will happen to it in five and ten years?<\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb pyetje e mir\u00eb. Thjesht e di se \u00e7far\u00eb po ndodh n\u00eb komunitet p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb \u00e7\u00ebshtje. Disa njer\u00ebz besojn\u00eb se, p\u00ebrve\u00e7 Kubernetes, nuk do t\u00eb mbetet gj\u00eb tjet\u00ebr. Situata q\u00eb ndodhi prej koh\u00ebsh me Linux. Pra, jasht\u00eb Linuxit ka njer\u00ebz q\u00eb jetojn\u00eb n\u00eb BSD, t\u00eb cil\u00ebt ka shum\u00eb t\u00eb ngjar\u00eb t\u00eb ken\u00eb detyra mjaft specifike. Ka njer\u00ebz q\u00eb punojn\u00eb n\u00ebn Windows \u2014 server\u00eb Windows \u2014 t\u00eb cil\u00ebt gjithashtu ka shum\u00eb t\u00eb ngjar\u00eb t\u00eb ken\u00eb detyra specifike, ose thjesht kan\u00eb kompetenc\u00ebn n\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb fush\u00eb dhe nuk jan\u00eb t\u00eb gatsh\u00ebm t\u00eb largohen nga aty. N\u00eb \u00e7do rast, standardi n\u00eb fush\u00ebn ton\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb Linux. Ka mendime q\u00eb Kubernetes do t\u00eb b\u00ebhet nj\u00eb standard de facto, dhe p\u00ebrve\u00e7 Kubernetes nuk do t\u00eb ket\u00eb asgj\u00eb tjet\u00ebr. Kubernetes do t\u00eb menaxhoj\u00eb jo vet\u00ebm aplikacionet, por edhe shp\u00ebrndarjen, implementimin, shkall\u00ebzimin. N\u00eb fakt, tani po pyesin: \"A \u00ebsht\u00eb e mundur q\u00eb n\u00eb Kubernetes t\u00eb futet nj\u00eb baz\u00eb t\u00eb dh\u00ebnash?\" Un\u00eb zakonisht them se k\u00ebtu nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb \u00e7\u00ebshtja n\u00eb Kubernetes, por n\u00eb Docker. N\u00ebse jeni t\u00eb gatsh\u00ebm q\u00eb baza juaj e t\u00eb dh\u00ebnave t\u00eb punoj\u00eb n\u00eb kontejner\u00eb, si do t\u00eb punoj\u00eb ajo. M\u00eb p\u00ebrgjigjen: \"Jo-jo-jo, prisni. N\u00eb kontejner\u00eb nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb e nevojshme. Duhet n\u00eb Kubernetes. Ne do ta lidhim at\u00eb me nodin. Pra, gjith\u00e7ka do t\u00eb jet\u00eb si\u00e7 \u00ebsht\u00eb tani, ve\u00e7se do t\u00eb menaxhohet nga Kubernetes.\" Dhe n\u00eb t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00eb, kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb ide e mir\u00eb. Pra, Kubernetes \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb gj\u00eb e till\u00eb, kur mund t\u00eb shkosh n\u00eb kompani, n\u00ebse n\u00eb kompani ka Kubernetes dhe procese t\u00eb nd\u00ebrtuara mbi t\u00eb, at\u00ebher\u00eb nj\u00eb person q\u00eb e njeh k\u00ebt\u00eb do t\u00eb mjaftonte t\u00eb shikonte p\u00ebr disa dit\u00eb p\u00ebr t\u00eb th\u00ebn\u00eb: \"Jam i gatsh\u00ebm t'ju mb\u00ebshtes. N\u00eb t\u00ebr\u00ebsi. Plot\u00ebsisht. E kuptova se si funksionon \u00e7far\u00eb keni k\u00ebtu.\" N\u00eb krahasim me qasjet pa Kubernetes \u2014 k\u00ebtu jan\u00eb disa mb\u00ebshtetje t\u00eb shtyra, k\u00ebtu jan\u00eb disa mb\u00ebshtetje t\u00eb tjera. K\u00ebtu \u00ebsht\u00eb Ansible, k\u00ebtu \u00ebsht\u00eb Terraform. Disa i kan\u00eb shkruar k\u00ebto, dhe duhet gjasht\u00eb muaj p\u00ebr t'u kuptuar. Pra, n\u00ebse Kubernetes do t\u00eb b\u00ebhet standardi de facto, nuk e di. N\u00eb dit\u00ebn e sotme, ai duket shum\u00eb m\u00eb ambicioz dhe i sigurt se zgjidhjet q\u00eb jan\u00eb p\u00ebrreth tij. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiyev: Po, krahasimi me Linux \u00ebsht\u00eb mjaft guximsh\u00ebm. Ai funksionon n\u00eb nj\u00eb makin\u00eb \u2014 dhe kaq. Nd\u00ebrsa Kubernetes funksionon n\u00eb shum\u00eb makina. Menj\u00ebher\u00eb lindin milion variacione, arsye. Po, kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb guximshme. Thjesht n\u00ebse merret parasysh se ka konkurrent\u00eb p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb paradigm\u00eb. P\u00ebr shembull, Serverless. A \u00ebsht\u00eb Kubernetes n\u00eb rrezik p\u00ebrball\u00eb k\u00ebtyre konkurent\u00ebve? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Nga Serverless\u2026 (qesh) Serverless \u2014 ne kemi gjithmon\u00eb nj\u00eb kuptim se \u0441\u0435\u0440\u0432\u0435\u0440\u0430<\/a> ndoshta ekziston. Kam d\u00ebgjuar koh\u00ebt e fundit nj\u00eb prezantim n\u00eb lidhje me k\u00ebt\u00eb. Diku, nj\u00eb njeri tha se server\u00ebt ndihmonin me t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00eb \u2014 dhe kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb cloud. Por gjithmon\u00eb duhet t\u00eb kuptojm\u00eb se n\u00eb cloud \u2014 ka gjithashtu server\u00eb. Ka server\u00eb real\u00eb metalik, rafte, dhe ato jan\u00eb diku t\u00eb vendosura. Kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb cloud. Mbi t\u00eb, ekziston Serverless, ku server\u00ebsh<\/a> nuk ka. Prandaj, a do t\u00eb dal\u00eb fitues Kubernetes Serverless? M\u00eb duket se Serverless do t\u00eb zhvendoset n\u00eb Kubernetes. P\u00ebr ofruesit q\u00eb ofrojn\u00eb Serverless, Kubernetes \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb platform\u00eb shum\u00eb praktike p\u00ebr ta ofruar k\u00ebt\u00eb. Po, ndoshta, n\u00eb nj\u00eb moment, ne do t\u00eb ndalojm\u00eb s\u00eb foli p\u00ebr Kubernetes n\u00eb p\u00ebrgjith\u00ebsi, si p\u00ebr zhvillimin normal t\u00eb aplikacioneve biznesore. Por diku thell\u00eb, p\u00ebr ofruesit dhe inxhinier\u00ebt, Kubernetes do t\u00eb jet\u00eb aty, ku gjith\u00e7ka do t\u00eb realizohet. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Nj\u00eb tem\u00eb pak ndryshe. Ka nj\u00eb koncept t\u00eb till\u00eb si inxhinier fullstack. \u00c7far\u00eb mendon p\u00ebr ta? A ekzistojn\u00eb n\u00eb t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00eb? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Em\u2026 Inxhinier fullstack\u2026 M\u00eb duket se duhet t\u00eb ndarim k\u00ebto gj\u00ebra n\u00eb lidhje me... E di, ka nj\u00eb gj\u00eb, si njer\u00ebz me form\u00eb T. A jan\u00eb t\u00eb nevojsh\u00ebm k\u00ebta njer\u00ebz n\u00eb industrin\u00eb e sotme? Po, pa dyshim, na nevojiten njer\u00ebz q\u00eb kan\u00eb nj\u00eb horizont t\u00eb gjer\u00eb, por p\u00ebr m\u00eb tep\u00ebr jan\u00eb specialist\u00eb n\u00eb nj\u00eb fush\u00eb t\u00eb ngusht\u00eb. Dhe k\u00ebtu inxhinieri fullstack \u00ebsht\u00eb t\u00eb nj\u00ebjt\u00ebn gj\u00eb \u2014 nj\u00eb person q\u00eb b\u00ebn gjith\u00e7ka. Duke filluar nga zhvillimi i frontend-it, testimi, backend, server\u00ebt dhe gjith\u00e7ka tjet\u00ebr. Nuk besoj se n\u00eb nj\u00eb kompani t\u00eb madhe nj\u00eb person mund ta b\u00ebj\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb pa specializime t\u00eb ngushta n\u00eb secilin nga k\u00ebta parametra. Por po ashtu, thjesht duke pasur nj\u00eb specializim t\u00eb ngusht\u00eb, si\u00e7 ndodh rreth k\u00ebsaj gj\u00ebje, nuk di asgj\u00eb \u2014 kjo gjithashtu nuk funksionon n\u00eb bot\u00ebn moderne. Pra, k\u00ebtu do t\u00eb thosha... do ta lija fjal\u00ebn Fullstack. Na nevojiten inxhinier\u00eb shum\u00eb. Na duhen DevOps. Kam ndjesin\u00eb se s\u00eb shpejti do ta rishikojm\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb moment. Dhe ata do t\u00eb b\u00ebhen t\u00eb panevojsh\u00ebm. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: A mund t\u00eb shpjegosh m\u00eb shum\u00eb? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: M\u00eb duket se industria jon\u00eb do t\u00eb arrij\u00eb n\u00eb at\u00eb pik\u00eb q\u00eb k\u00ebto role Dev dhe Ops do t\u00eb zhduken s\u00eb shpejti. N\u00ebse na duhen specialist\u00eb dhe ne jemi duke k\u00ebrkuar... Duhet nj\u00eb programues i till\u00eb, na duhen administrator\u00eb t\u00eb till\u00eb, na duhen inxhinier\u00eb DevOps \u2014 tani i kemi, do t\u00eb shfaqen edhe inxhinier\u00ebt e prodhimit, inxhinier\u00ebt SRE. Sidoqoft\u00eb, ajo q\u00eb na nevojitet n\u00eb t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00eb jan\u00eb inxhinier\u00ebt q\u00eb duam t\u00eb pun\u00ebsojm\u00eb. Pasuria e tyre nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb aq e r\u00ebnd\u00ebsishme. Sepse... P\u00ebr shembull, SRE thot\u00eb se problemet e infrastruktur\u00ebs gjithmon\u00eb jan\u00eb softuerike. Dhe \u00e7far\u00eb... Le t'i marrim programuesit \u2014 nga pik\u00ebpamja q\u00eb programuesi \u00ebsht\u00eb inxhinier \u2014 t'i vendosim ata n\u00eb departamentin e mb\u00ebshtetjes dhe ata do t\u00eb zgjidhin k\u00ebto probleme ashtu si\u00e7 zgjidhin problemet e biznesit me an\u00eb t\u00eb kodit, me an\u00eb t\u00eb inxhinieris\u00eb, si t\u00eb till\u00eb. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiev: Dhe nga ky k\u00ebndv\u00ebshtrim... Si t\u00eb intervistojm\u00eb k\u00ebta inxhinier\u00eb? <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Oh, that\u2019s a good question. It is probably beyond what I understand in this life. But I can give an example. It doesn't relate to the interview. It's about our education system in Russia. In IT, we know that our education system in Russia is very outdated for the IT world; it's not what it should be. I\u2019m talking generally about vast Russia \u2014 and what happens there. People graduate who are completely unprepared to go into web development or a tech company right after graduation. And that's a problem. We teach them some strange things, whereas we should be teaching them to develop for Android, for iOS, and how to use Git and all these things. In reality, it seems like we don\u2019t. College is a time when your parents mostly pay for you. For your entire life. And you can spend five years of your life studying in depth. And learning all this T-shaped stuff. When you can study in college what a version control system is, what development patterns there are, how to test all of this, what databases and load balancers exist. And when you start working, you begin to delve into a specific area. And in this way, we get engineers. And our education system in Russia is much closer to this truth than we think. We get good mathematical training, good algorithmic training, and some understanding of programming languages. And regarding the interview, it seems to me something close to this. We need to interview engineers. We need the upper part of the T-shaped. Because the vertical line of the T will be acquired. <\/p>\n

Azat Khadiyev: Yes, interesting. For five years after college, I thought my education was somewhat strange and inadequate. But then, as I worked and the tasks became deeper and projects bigger, I realized that no, I was taught very important things. Pavel, thank you. It was very interesting to hear your answers. We will listen to your presentation. <\/p>\n

Pavel Selivanov: Thank you.
\n
Burimi: habr.com<\/a><\/p>","protected":false,"gt_translate_keys":[{"key":"rendered","format":"html"}]},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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