Le habrapost iyingxoxo no-Anton Weiss, umnikazi obambisene wezobuchwepheshe be-Otomato Software, onolwazi olungaphezu kweminyaka engu-15 emkhakheni wobuchwepheshe obuphezulu. Uyingcweti ekufundiseni kobuchwepheshe, umqalisi kanye nombhali-ndawonye wesifundo sokuqala sesitifiketi se-DevOps kwa-Israel. U-Anton ubamba iqhaza ezingqungqutheleni zamazwe ngamazwe futhi waziwa njengesikhulumi esipholile.
Sizokhuluma ngezihloko ezilandelayo:
Umehluko phakathi kweRussia ne-Israel
U-Oleg: Sicela usitshele ukuthi ungubani futhi wenzani.
Anton: Ngingu-Anton, owazalelwa eSt. Petersburg, kodwa lapho ngineminyaka engu-15 ngathuthela kwa-Israel futhi bengilokhu ngihlala khona kusukela ngaleso sikhathi. Kule minyaka engamashumi amabili edlule kwa-Israyeli ngibambe iqhaza ku-IT ngezindlela zayo ezahlukahlukene. Kule minyaka engamashumi amabili, kule minyaka eyishumi edlule ngikhethekile kukho konke okuhlobene nokulethwa kwesofthiwe: ukuhlanganiswa, lokho okwakubizwa ngokuthi ukuphathwa kokucushwa, nalokho manje okubizwa ngokuthi i-DevOps. Ngasebenza ezinkampanini ezinkulu - emabhizinisini omhlaba afana ne-AT&T, BMC. Isebenze ekuqaleni. Kule minyaka emine edlule, nginenkampani yami yokubonisana, ebizwa nge-Otomato Software, lapho sibambe iqhaza ekusizeni izinhlangano ukuthi zithuthukise izinqubo zokulethwa futhi zisebenzise kahle amathuluzi amasha: okungukuthi, senza kokubili ingxenye yezobuchwepheshe nakho konke okuzungezile.
U-Oleg: Ingabe ukhona umehluko phakathi kweRussia ne-Israel mayelana nomsebenzi?
Anton: Cishe angikaze ngisebenze namakhasimende aseRussia. Okungixhumanise neRussia kule minyaka engu-3 edlule yizingqungquthela. Futhi ezinkampanini eziningana zaseRussia senza okuthile okufana nokucwaninga: safika, sabheka, sacabanga, sakhipha izincomo futhi sahamba. Okusho ukuthi, wawungekho umsebenzi onjalo wansuku zonke, ngakho-ke kunzima kimi ukusho ukuthi uhluke kanjani. Ngicabanga ukuthi kunezinto ezahlukene yonke indawo. Okusho ukuthi, kwa-Israyeli, isibonelo, sinezinhlangano ezinzima kangaka zezinkampani lapho abantu besebenze khona iminyaka engu-15, futhi konke kuhamba kanzima kakhulu. Futhi kungakhathaliseki ukuthi bazama kanjani ukwenza uhlobo oluthile lokuguqulwa, bathuthukise izinqubo: bazokhuluma futhi bakhulume, kodwa ... Sineklayenti lapho eminyakeni emibili edlule senza konke futhi senza zonke izinqumo, sathuthukisa zonke izinhlelo, futhi kokunye ngalowo mzuzu kume yonke into, saphuma lapho. Ezinsukwini ezimbalwa ezedlule ngihlangane nabaphathi bakhona esasisebenza nabo, ngathi:
- Awu, kanjani?
- Well, kanje. Kunzima, bathi, siyakwenza, manje kukhona into eqala ukwenzeka.
Ngemva kweminyaka emibili. Kukhona ipolitiki, kukhona izindawo ezinomthelela. Kukhona abantu abangafuni ukuyeka lezi zindawo zethonya, ngakho-ke, lapho isimo esinjalo sivela, kunzima kakhulu ukushintsha noma yini. Hhayi-ke, amathuluzi ngokwawo aya phambili ngandlela thize. Ngakolunye uhlangothi, kwa-Israyeli kuneziqalo lapho yonke into ishintsha ngokushesha okukhulu, kulula ukuphakamisa ithuluzi elisha, futhi kakade zonke zingamafu futhi zisefwini ngokuphelele. Lokhu, ngendlela, kungase kube omunye umehluko obonakalayo phakathi kweRussia ne-Israel. Kwa-Israyeli, ifu lomphakathi lilula kakhulu. Ngokubona kwami. E-Russia, isibonelo, kubonakala sengathi kunzima kakhulu kuwo wonke umuntu ngaphandle kokuqala ukuya efwini lomphakathi, kodwa kwa-Israyeli kuselula. Namuhla, ngisho namabhange nezinkampani zomshwalense sezinokuqonda okuthile ukuthi okungenani ezinye zezinto zabo zingasatshalaliswa efwini lomphakathi. Futhi akekho lapha owesaba izinkontileka ne-Google ne-Amazon. Ngokwalokho engikuzwe ezingqungqutheleni zaseRussia, kusenzima kakhulu lapho, kahle, ngisho nangombono wezigwegwe noma ukungewona unswinyo kanye nezindaba ezithile zomthetho.
Umehluko phakathi kwama-startups nama-giants
U-Oleg: Ngiyaqonda. By the way, kukuphi okuthakazelisa kakhulu futhi kujabulise ngawe ukusebenza: ekuqaleni noma ezinhlanganweni ezinkulu?
Anton: Kuyajabulisa kakhulu, yiqiniso, ekuqaleni, ngoba izinhlangano ezinkulu ... kahle, ngempela, kungukuthi nje izinto ezihamba kanzima kakhulu. Inezinzuzo zayo, kunjalo. Uma ubheka izinhlangano ezinkulu, ngokwesibonelo, zinokuningi kwalokho okubizwa ngokuthi ukuhlukahluka. Izinkampani ezinkulu, ngenxa nje yokuthi zidinga abantu abaningi noma ngenxa yokuthi kuwuhlobo oluthile lwesiko lenhlangano elithuthukile eminyakeni edlule, zilungele ukuqasha abantu abahlukene. Ngokuqondile, lapha kwa-Israyeli, ngokwesibonelo, ekuqaleni ngeke uthole, isibonelo, ama-Arabhu, cishe akekho kubo. Ezinhlanganweni ezinkulu lokhu kulula kakhulu. Kodwa iziqalo zikhula ohlotsheni oluthile lwesizinda samasiko, lapho iningi labahlanganyeli ngokuyisisekelo kulawo madoda amhlophe afanayo. Kukhona isiko lapho udinga ukusebenza kanzima, futhi kuhle ukusebenza amahora angu-10-12 ngosuku, futhi lokhu akwanele. Kubonakala sengathi sineMoscow (okungukuthi, i-Tel Aviv) ngemuva kwethu, akukho ndawo yokuhlehla, ngakho-ke kufanele sopha lapha futhi manje.
U-Oleg: Kuthiwani ngomehluko endleleni ye-DevOps ezinkampanini ezincane nezinkulu? Okusho ukuthi, uma, ngokwesibonelo, usebenzela abantu ababili, akudingeki uzenzele i-CI/CD, kodwa ukopishe izinto zobuciko usebenzisa i-SCP.
Anton: Ngakolunye uhlangothi, yebo. Ngakolunye uhlangothi, namuhla ukusetha i-CI/CD akusho ukuthi wenza ukulethwa okuqhubekayo ngempela. Kodwa ukuzibekela uhlobo oluthile lwepayipi, uma uyinkampani yabantu ababili, kulula kakhulu. Uma ngaphambi kokuthi udinga ukudideka ngandlela-thile, namuhla unezinsizakalo eziningi zamafu. Ngabhala i-YAML sahamba. Kulula ngalokhu. Eqinisweni, inselele iqukethe iziqalo ezikhule ngokweqile. Labo abaye badlula abantu abangu-20, futhi yilapho beqala khona ubuhlungu ngokukala, ngoba azikho izinqubo. Ngaphambili, konke kwakusebenza ngandlela-thile, kodwa manje zonke lezi zinxushunxushu ziqala, futhi akucaci ukuthi singayigcina kanjani le dynamism yangaphambili futhi ngesikhathi esifanayo sifeze izinqubo, futhi sinqume ukuthi ubani omunye ozokwenza konke lokhu.
Futhi yilapho wonke "sizoba nethimba le-DevOps elizoba nesibopho sezinto ze-DevOps" liqala, siyazi ukuthi lokho kuholela kuphi ezimweni eziningi. Kuvela ibhodlela, futhi kancane kancane zikhula zize zibe lapho izinkampani ezinkulu zikhona manje. Ezinkampanini ezinkulu, inkinga ihluke ngokuphelele, abasenayo ngisho ne-bottleneck, kodwa kumane nje kuyisango elinamandla kangangokuthi livula kanye ngosuku, futhi isikhathi esisele kuqoqa udoti omkhulu lapho. Ngakho-ke bayacabanga: “Singenza kanjani manje amasango amaningi amancane aphume kuleli sango elingavulwa kalula?” Okungukuthi, izinkinga ezihluke ngokuphelele. Ama-Startups anenkinga yokuthi "sidonswa emfuleni, singaphuma kanjani?", nezinkampani ezinkulu zinenkinga - vele zisemgodini, sezivele zisembusweni ongaphansi komhlaba, manje becabanga ukuthi bangabhukuda kanjani baphindele phezulu.
Ukuthambekela ekukhuleni kobunzima, nokuthi yini okufanele uyenze ngakho
U-Oleg: Nokho, kanye nobuhle bengxenye yobuchwepheshe: uma unabantu abambalwa, ubuchwepheshe obulula, udinga ukwazi izinto eziyisisekelo Linux, futhi yilokho kuphela. Futhi uma ulinganisa kancane, udinga ukufunda ama-Kubernetes, futhi lokho kubonakala kuyinkinga.
Anton: Futhi lokhu akungabazeki ukuthi kuyinkinga. Sibe nengqungquthela ezinsukwini ezimbili ezedlule, futhi kuphawuleke kakhulu ukuthi cishe wonke umuntu osho okuthile lapho ubeka igama elilodwa: “inkimbinkimbi”. Lokhu sekuphenduke uhlobo oluthile lwegama elichazayo kuyo yonke inkulumo ye-DevOps namuhla.
U-Oleg: Ingabe bekunje ngonyaka odlule?
Anton: Ekuzameni ukwenza yonke into ngokushesha, ngamandla, ukuze sizuze ukuguquguquka okudumile, sizidalele inkimbinkimbi enjalo. Ngempela, kunamapayipi amaningi amancane asebenza kahle ngawodwana, bese sizama ukuhlanganisa uhlobo oluthile lwesithombe somhlaba kusuka kukho konke lokhu, futhi yilapho okuyinkimbinkimbi kuphakama ngokuzumayo. Ngoba kuwo wonke la mapayipi amancane manje sakha inqubo eyodwa ukuze inkampani yonke isebenze njengomuntu.
U-Oleg: Futhi ithini impendulo? Indlela yokuphatha lobu bunzima?
Anton: Hhayi-ke, azikho izimpendulo, bazalwa ngohlelo. Umbiko wami wawumayelana nesinye salezi zinqumo. Ngokuvamile, konke lokhu kuholelaphi? Ngesinye isikhathi ngangenwa yizinhlelo zokucabanga; kukhulunywa kakhulu ku-DevOps. Ngaba nesithakazelo, ngafunda izincwadi zikaPeter Senge, uRussell Ackoff, uDonella Meadows - abantu okwathi ngandlela thize baqala izinhlelo zokucabanga futhi, ngokuvamile, baveza izimiso zabo eziyinhloko. Enye yamalensi ayinhloko lapho ukucabanga kwesistimu kubheka umhlaba amalophu empendulo. Ngalokhu kuyinkimbinkimbi, lezi zihibe zempendulo manje ziyavela, okungukuthi, ubunzima buba kakhulu, buphakeme kakhulu, siqala ukufuna amathuluzi ukuze ngandlela-thile silawule lobu bunzima, kahle, okungenani. Angisho ukuthi yehliswe—ukuyibheka ukuze ingaxazululeki.
Izixazululo ezimaphakathi ziyavela; ngokuvamile, ngisho ne-Kubernetes into enjalo. Unendiza yokulawula emaphakathi, okuthi, okwamanje oyilawulayo, izolawula yonke inkimbinkimbi yalezo zinsizakalo ezihamba nxazonke. Isisefo sesevisi, i-mesh yesevisi efanayo, iwuhlobo olufanayo lwesixazululo. Sithi: “Ziningi izinkonzo esinazo, sidinga ukuthi bakhulume bodwa, ngoba akuqondakali ukuthi bahlezi kuphi futhi akucaci noma bazoziphendula noma cha, futhi abakwazi ukuzibamba bona. . Ngakho-ke masenze lokhu manje, phakathi sizofaka umqondo othile wendawo yonke ozobatshela ukuthi bangakhuluma nobani nokuthi bangakwazi ukukhuluma nobani, futhi sibavikele uma besho okuthile okudelela ngokuzumayo.” Futhi kunemibuzo eminingi ngalokhu. Ngakolunye uhlangothi, lokhu kuyisidingo esithile, ngoba izinhlangano azikwazi ukubhekana nazo. Sisize izinhlangano ezimbalwa ukuthi zithuthele emhlabeni omusha onesibindi we-Cloud Native kule minyaka embalwa edlule, ikakhulukazi uma ifika njengoba inkampani ikhula, iyakhula, futhi abantu bavele balahleke. Maphakathi kwakho konke lokhu kuneqembu elincane elibizwa nge-DevOps okufanele libhale izinkulungwane zemigqa ye-YAML ukuze ngandlela thize libhekane nakho konke, futhi yonke into ivele ihlukane phakathi.
I-Cloud Native
U-Oleg: Ungakwazi yini ukuchaza kancane ukuthi iyini i-Cloud Native? Ngenxa yokuthi isiphenduke uhlobo oluthile lwegama, manje wonke umuntu ubhala kulo lonke udonga. Uyibona kanjani?
Anton: Ikakhulu, konke kwaqala ngokufika kwendlela "yenkundla njengesevisi", okungukuthi, lapho sidinga ukusebenzisa isoftware eningi kanye nezinsizakalo zewebhu eziningi kakhulu kunangaphambili. Sabona ukuthi kwakungasenakwenzeka ukukhipha insizakalo ngayinye ngokwehlukana, njengesilwane esifuywayo esisithandayo esisazi ngegama nesinakekela ukuphila kwethu konke, kudingeka sibhekane nabo njengohlobo lomhlambi. Ukuze senze lokhu, sidinga uhlobo oluthile lwenkundla efanayo esingaphonsa kuyo le khodi, futhi inkundla izohlakanipha ngokwanele ukuyinikeza. Isiphuzo esizenzelayo, ngamafuphi, siyisiphuzo esizenzekelayo-i-auto-feeder yesevisi.
Amaphayona ale ndlela kwakunguHeroku. Bathe ukuze lezi zinsiza zikwazi ukusebenzisa ingqalasizinda yethu kumele nazo zibe izinkomo. Okusho ukuthi, kufanele babe nezimfanelo ezithile. Yile ndlela uhlelo lokusebenza lwe-12-factor oluvela ngayo, obekufanele lube nesimo esincane esizinzile ngangokunokwenzeka. Isicelo esinjalo ngempela sihlanganiswe uhlobo oluthile lwepayipi, oluhlola ukuhambisana kwalo nesiteji. Kumele ikwazi ukuqina - ukwazi ukuthi uma kukhona okungahambi kahle, asikho isidingo sokuwa ngokushesha. Ngakolunye uhlangothi, ngomqondo othile, thembela endaweni yesikhulumi. Ngokuvamile, kuwuhlobo lwe-hybrid. Qonda ukuthi awuwedwa, ukuthi kukhona inkundla futhi kufanele uhloniphe ukulinganiselwa kwayo. Ngokuvamile, konke kwaqala kusukela lapho.
Kodwa ngenxa yesizathu esithile le ndlela "yenkundla njengesevisi" ayizange iziphendulele, futhi i-boom ethenjisiwe ayizange yenzeke. Okusho ukuthi, yebo, kwakukhona i-Heroku, khona-ke ngokushesha ngemva kwabo bonke abafana abakhulu baphakamisa ama-analogues: I-Google App Engine, i-Amazon - Elastic Beanstalk. Kwadingeka ngisebenze kakhulu nezinkampani eziqale ngalokhu. Kodwa lapho wenza okuthile okwedlula lokho okuvunyelwe yipulatifomu, kuphenduka ikhanda elibuhlungu elibi. Ngoba uqala ukushayisana nezindonga ezigcwele yonke indawo. Futhi njengoba abantu bevame ukwenza, lapho behlangana nezindonga, baqala ukufuna indlela yokunqamula udonga.
I-Modern Cloud Native ikhule isuka lapho: indlela yokwenza iqhubeke efwini, sebenzisa izinsiza ezithile zeplathifomu, kodwa ngesikhathi esifanayo inikeza ukuguquguquka okumangalisayo kukho konke okwenzekayo. Sihlala silinganisela phakathi kokuvumelana nezimo nokuba lula. Ukuvumelana nezimo kubangela inkimbinkimbi, futhi ukwenza lula nokudala inkundla ecacile njalo kubangela ukulinganiselwa. I-Cloud Native, ngokusobala, imayelana nokuthola uhlobo oluthile lwebhalansi phakathi kwemikhawulo yeplathifomu yamafu kanye nokuvumelana nezimo ifu elikuvumela ngokukalwa kwalo okuzenzakalelayo, futhi konke lokhu kuza nenani.
U-Oleg: Mhlawumbe, inhlangano ngokwayo kufanele ngandlela thize ifunde ukuphila ngokuqhubekayo nayo yonke le nto.
Anton: Ngokwemvelo, ngokwemvelo! Konke lokhu kushiya umkhondo. Ama-Microservices nawo ayasebenza kulokhu. Ngokuvamile, lona umqondo wokuthi sinezinsizakalo ezincane, izinhlelo zokusebenza ezincane ezihlakazekile kulo lonke ifu futhi zingatholakala noma kuphi nganoma yisiphi isikhathi, futhi kungase kube nama-replicas angu-10 manje, futhi kusasa - 1500, lokhu nakho konke kuyingxenye ye i-Cloud Native. Umbono wokuthi asinqunyelwe imingcele ebonakalayo yesikhungo sedatha. Ngokujwayelekile, umhlaba wonke uyifu lami, lo umbono omangalisayo, isifiso esimangalisayo, kodwa unenani, futhi le ntengo iyinkimbinkimbi, inani liwukuthi, ngokuvamile, akekho ongangena ekhanda lakhe. kuzokwenzekani, lapho isicelo sethu sikhula ngokuzumayo kusuka ku-10 kuya ku-1500. Akekho ongacabanga lokhu, futhi zonke izinto zobuciko zokulinganisa ziqala ukuvela. Thina njengabantu, njengabasebenzi, akukho esingakwenza ngakho ngaphandle kokusabela ezinxushunxushwini ezenzekayo. Ngakho-ke siqala ukucabanga: "Singalwakha kanjani uhlelo lwethu lokusebenza nengqalasizinda yethu ngendlela yokuthi lapho lezi zinto zivela, okokuqala, zingabonwa kusengaphambili, futhi okwesibili, ngandlela-thile singakwazi ukubhekana nalezi zinto zobuciko futhi siqhubeke nokusebenza?"
Ukuhlanganisa amakhono ezobuchwepheshe kanye nokungewona awezobuchwepheshe
U-Oleg: Unemibiko emayelana nezinto zobuchwepheshe, isibonelo, futhi kunemibiko ngobuholi, abaphathi, nakho konke lokho. Ingabe ngokuvamile ungumuntu wezobuchwepheshe, noma ungumphathi, noma ingabe isakhiwo sakho sihluke ngandlela thile?
Anton: Ngesinye isikhathi ngaze ngaqala ukubhala iposi mayelana nalokhu, kodwa angikakaqedi okwamanje. Ngike ngahlukana phakathi kwalezi zinto ezimbili, ngoba ngakolunye uhlangothi ngithanda ukuqonda ukuthi izinto zisebenza kanjani, ngiyathanda ukuzithola. Uma ukwazi ukuxazulula inkinga yobuchwepheshe, lokhu ngokwakho kuvele kukunike umuzwa omangalisayo wamakhono akho, lokho okubizwa ngokuthi ukuzanelisa okusheshayo, umvuzo osheshayo, ukushesha kwe-dopamine: “O, kuhle, ngingakwenza, nginqumile. ” Futhi kunzima ukuyeka, kunzima ukuphuma kukho. Futhi njengoba lokhu kukhona, ngiyaqhubeka nokwenza izinto zobuchwepheshe. Ubuchwepheshe obusha buyangijabulisa: kuhle ukumba into ethile, ukuqonda okuthile. Ngenxa yalokhu, kuvela ukuthi njengoba kukhona lolu lwazi, abantu bafuna ukuyithenga, futhi ngiyaqhubeka nokudayisa.
Ngakolunye uhlangothi, ngiyaqonda ukuthi lokhu kuyingxenye encane yesithombe esikhulu, ngisebenze embonini isikhathi eside ngokwanele, futhi angikwazi ukubona ukuthi ubuchwepheshe buyingxenye yesistimu enkulu, enye nje yezingxenye. . Ngiphathe amaqembu, futhi ngiyaqonda ukuthi kubaluleke kangakanani ukucabangela indlela ubuchwepheshe namathuluzi asebenzisana ngayo nabantu abawasebenzisayo. Ekugcineni, ubuchwepheshe bolwazi, empeleni noma yibuphi ubuchwepheshe, bukhona ukuze abantu babusebenzise. Futhi ukudala ubuchwepheshe ngaphandle kokucabanga ukuthi ubani oyisebenzisayo akusizi ngalutho. Ubuchwepheshe uqobo abuthakazelisi nhlobo ngaphandle uma ucabanga ngokusebenza kwabo, futhi uhlelo lokusebenza luhlala luhlotshaniswa nabantu abahlomulayo ngandlela thize kukho. Ngakho-ke, yonke into emayelana nobuchwepheshe nayo iyangithakasela kakhulu. Nginomuzwa wokuthi kudingekile ukukhuluma ngalokhu, ngiyaqonda ukuthi ngaphandle kwayo yonke into ilahlekelwa incazelo yayo ngempela. Kuze kube yilapho ngezinye izikhathi ngijabulela ukuhlala nokugebenga izinsuku ezimbili noma ezintathu, ngezinye izikhathi amasonto. Ngingathwalwa inkinga ethile engingakwazi ukuyixazulula, ngikwazi ukuyixazulula, futhi ngithole izinzuzo ezimangalisayo kuyo. Kodwa-ke ngiphakamisa ikhanda lami kukhibhodi, ngiqalaze, futhi ngibone ukuthi kukhona okwenzekayo nxazonke engingenakukuziba nganoma iyiphi indlela. Bese-ke amakhodi nokudlala nge-Linux kuba okungathandeki ngokuphelele futhi okungabalulekile kimi, futhi ngifuna ukuqala ukuxazulula izinkinga ezingeni elihlukile, ezingeni lomuntu.
Ungawaqonda kanjani ngokushesha ama-DevOps
U-Oleg: Lalela, ingabe unazo izeluleko zabantu okwamanje abenza ubunjiniyela nokufunda izinqubo ze-DevOps ngesikhathi esisodwa? Ungazifaka kanjani zonke kuwe futhi ngaluphi uhlelo? Uma sikhuluma nje, ungawuhlela kanjani umsebenzi wakho ukuze uphumelele kakhudlwana ngesikhathi esifushane?
Anton: Eh... Hhayi-ke, asikho iseluleko samazwe ngamazwe, futhi, kusukela kokuhlangenwe nakho kwami siqu. Isikhathi eside impela, cishe iminyaka eyi-10 yokuqala yomsebenzi wami, nganginganelisekile ngendawo yami. Ngabheka engangingakuthandi, ngagxila kukho, ngabheka engangingakujabulela kakhulu ukukwenza. Kodwa ngokuvamile, akenzanga lutho ngakho. Iseluleko esiyinhloko sithi... Ngicabanga ukuthi umsebenzi wami usuqale ngasiphi isikhathi? Lapho ngiqala ukukhuluma ngezinto ezazingithakazelisa. Umkhakha wolwazi lobuchwepheshe, hhayi nje ulwazi lobuchwepheshe, ngokuvamile umkhakha wezobuchwepheshe bolwazi ngokwawo ubanzi kakhulu, okungukuthi, ungaba uchwepheshe: umthuthukisi, umhloli, umdidiyeli, nomqondisi wesistimu - konke lokhu izinto ezahlukene, wonke umuntu angathola niche yabo lapho. Awufuni ukuba i-techie ephelele, ingabe unentshisekelo kukho kokubili izinto zobuchwepheshe nezamabhizinisi? Bamba iqhaza emsebenzini womkhiqizo nephrojekthi. Kunama-niches amaningi, thola i-niche yakho ezoba mnandi kuwe.
Kunezinkulumo eziningi kulezi zinsuku mayelana nezingcweti ezimise okwe-T. Udinga ukuqonda ukuthi ukuphi umlenze we-T yakho, khetha into eyodwa, bese uqala ukumba kule ndawo. Lapho umba, ukujula okumangalisayo kuzokwembulwa. Kodwa ungamba noma yikuphi. Futhi ngazi kahle ukuthi ziningi izindawo engingazange ngizimbe ngijule ngoba ngizamile ukubheka ngabona ukuthi akumina. Kodwa lapho unesithakazelo sokumba, qhubeka umba, futhi lapha kubaluleke kakhulu ukukhuluma ngakho. Ngisho, futhi, ngiyaqonda ukuthi lokhu akuwona wonke umuntu. Kodwa lapha, futhi, wonke umuntu unezinhlobo ezahlukene zokukhuluma: kwabanye, kungase kulungele ukubhala amabhulogi, kodwa uma ungakwazi ukubhala amabhulogi abhaliwe futhi ahlekisayo, vele ubhale amabhulogi wezobuchwepheshe, ushicilele i-Gist ku-GitHub. Uma uxazulule inkinga, yishicilele.
Ikakhulukazi, namuhla ukuthuthukiswa komsebenzi kwenzeka ngokwabelana. Kunesizathu ukwabelana ngolwazi kuyivelu ebaluleke kangaka ku-DevOps. Bonke abanye bayazuza kulokhu, futhi wena ngokwakho uhlale uzuza uma wabelana ngolwazi lwakho. Noma yimuphi umuntu onomthombo ovulekile ikhodi yakhe wazi kahle kamhlophe ukuthi udinga kangakanani ukuhlanganisa ikhodi, ukuthi udinga kanjani ukucabanga ngendlela ehlukile okwamanje lapho uyinikeza omunye umuntu, futhi uyaqonda ukuthi omunye uzoyisebenzisa. Izinto ezifanayo ze-sociotechnical engikhulume ngazo zingena ngokushesha. Uqala ukucabanga ukuthi lokhu akuyona nje ikhodi, kodwa ikhodi ezofundwa omunye umuntu, mhlawumbe bazofuna ukuyishintsha, bazodinga ukuqonda ukuthi le khodi yenzani. Futhi lapho lokhu kusebenzisana kuphakama, usuvele uqala ukuxhumana nabanye abantu engqondweni yakho. Futhi umsebenzi womuntu uthuthuka kuphela ngokusebenzisana nabanye abantu. Ngokuvamile, uyini umsebenzi? Umsebenzi usho ukuthi ngiba usizo kubantu abaningi, ngiwusizo futhi ngidingeka. Ngithola ulwazi oludingekayo futhi oluwusizo kubantu abaningi. Ukuze wenze lokhu, udinga ukuqonda ukuthi laba bantu bafuna ini nokuthi yini abayidingayo. Into efana nale. Konke kuhlale kwehlela kubantu.
U-Oleg: Ake sithi sipholile, senza i-DevOps, zonke izinhlobo zemikhuba emisha, njalonjalo. Kodwa kukhona abakwaziyo nabakuhloniphayo lokhu, bese kuba khona bonke abanye. Futhi cabanga ukuthi usebenza eqenjini kwezinye, ikakhulukazi enkampanini enkulu, futhi namanje ... masiqaphele, abaziwa kakhulu futhi abahlonishwa kakhulu. Ingabe zikhona izindlela zokuqalisa ukusebenzisa yonke le mibono? Uma ungeyena umholi. Kuyacaca ukuthi uma ungumphathi, ungavele uthi: “Sizokusebenzisa kusasa.” Kwenzekani uma ungumuntu ojwayelekile futhi ufuna ukuthuthukisa?
Anton: Okokuqala, akudingekile ukuthi izosebenza uma uthi njengomphathi: "Sizoyisebenzisa kusasa." Abantu bazokwenza imisebenzi ethile, kodwa lokhu akusho ukuthi ukuqonda okujulile kokuthi kungani wenziwa kuzovela ngokuzenzakalelayo. Futhi-ke, akekho othanda noma yiziphi izinguquko, ikakhulukazi lapho bemtshela: "Kudingeka ushintshe."
U-Oleg: Manje kufanele ngenzeni?
Anton: Hhayi-ke, bheka, ngangikule ndawo futhi ngihileleke ekusetshenzisweni kwezinqubo ezinjalo, empeleni, kusukela ngezansi, ngiyisisebenzi seqembu, bese ngivele ngihola iqembu. Okuwukuphela kwendlela esebenzayo indlela yomthengisi wezidakamizwa. Yilokhu engikubiza ngokuthi “ukubambisana okusekelwe kusevisi,” okungukuthi, ukusebenzisana okugxile kusevisi. Ngokuvamile, uyazi ukuthi unabantu abathile eduze kwakho ongababona njengamakhasimende akho. Senza okuthile, omunye uyakusebenzisa. Esimeni esilula, u-Agile ake akhuluma ngaso: lapha ngingumthuthukisi, ngineklayenti, futhi ngokufanele, kufanele ngiqonde ukuthi iklayenti lami lifunani ukuze ngithuthukise isofthiwe ngempumelelo.
Enkampanini enkulu, ngokuvamile anginakho ukuxhumana okuqondile nekhasimende, nomsebenzisi. Kodwa kunabantu abangizungezile. Isibonelo, ngibhala umtapo wolwazi - abanye abantu bahlanganisa nawo, ngibhala uhlobo oluthile lwe-backend - nginabathuthukisi bangaphambili abadinga ukukhuluma nayo, ngibhala ikhodi - nginabahloli abangibhalela izivivinyo, noma, futhi, ngibanika izinguqulo ukuze babe nokuthile okufanele bahlole. Futhi ngobubanzi, udinga nje ukucabanga: “Nakhu ngingumhlinzeki wesevisi, nginamakhasimende. Konke kuzosebenza kahle kakhulu uma ngenza amaklayenti ami ajabule. Okungukuthi, uma amaklayenti ami ejabule, khona-ke ngizojabula. Ngokusobala, ngizozitholela, okokuqala, idumela elithile kimina, ngizothola isimo sengqondo esihle, ngizothola impendulo eyakhayo. ” Futhi ngibuyela endleleni yomthengisi wezidakamizwa, ngifuna la maklayenti abuyele kimi ukuze athole okunye okufanayo.
Okungukuthi, uma ngicabanga ukuthi indlela ethile ilungile, isibonelo, ukuhlanganiswa okuqhubekayo nokuhlolwa ... Kukhona abahleli bezinhlelo abathi namuhla, isibonelo, bakuthola kunzima ukuhlola umsebenzi wabo. Kudingeka siqinisekise ukuthi akudingeki bacabange ngakho kakhulu, ukuze bathole lawo masheke kalula ngangokunokwenzeka. Namuhla kubukeka kuyinto encane kakhulu, eminyakeni eyi-10 edlule bekungeyona into encane: ngaleso sikhathi lapho ngiphusha ikhodi yami, ukuze yonke into yakhiwe ngokuzenzakalelayo endaweni ethile, isetshenziswe, futhi kuphela uma kube nephutha, ngizothola umlayezo, Phakathi naleso sikhathi, ngingahamba ngiphuze ikhofi ngokuthula futhi ngingacabangi ukuthi manje ngidinga ukuqhuba ukuhlanganiswa kukhompyutha yami ukuze ngibe nawo wonke amathuluzi adingekayo, ngoba lokhu kubuye kube ikhanda. Okusho ukuthi, uma unciphisa inani lekhanda elibuhlungu, abantu babanjwe kulo. Sonke siyakubona: lapho usunepayipi elisebenza kahle, ngokushesha wonke umuntu olisebenzisayo akasakwazi ukucabanga ukuphila ngaphandle kwalo. Uma ngifuna ukushintsha okuthile, ngidinga ukudala inqubo lapho abantu bezoba nokuncika okuthile ngokomzwelo.
U-Oleg: Kuhle. Abantu abaningi bathemba ukuthi inkosi ethile, umholi omkhulu, noma enye into izofika futhi ibatshele indlela yokuphila, futhi ngemva kwalokho wonke umuntu, ngokuqinisekile, uzothuthela ezweni elisha elinesibindi nge-DevOps noma enye into. Ingabe inkosi enjalo iyadingeka?
Anton: Cha, inkosi ezokutshela indlela yokuphila ayidingeki neze. Umphathi ozimisele ukulalela izisebenzi zakhe, ozimisele ukubathemba, futhi ozimisele ukubasekela ekwenzeni umsebenzi ngendlela ezizwa inethezekile futhi ilungile kubo? Yebo, umuntu onjalo uyadingeka, ngoba ngaphandle kwayo kuyoba nje umzabalazo. Futhi umzabalazo wabaphansi ngokumelene nabaphathi babo awupheli nganoma yini enhle. Ngenxa yalokho, kuzophela kabi kumuntu oyedwa, kungaba kumphathi noma kwabangaphansi.
Kodwa inkinga ukuthi kunzima kakhulu ukutshela abantu okufanele bakwenze nokungamelwe bakwenze. Bagcina benza lokho isizinda sabo samasiko, ukuzazisa, noma isimo somzwelo sesikhashana esibaholela ekubeni bakwenze.
Imikhuba ewusizo kakhulu nobuchwepheshe obuvela emhlabeni we-DevOps
U-Oleg: Ngendlela, manje kushunyayelwa inani elikhulu lazo zonke izinhlobo zemikhuba: kunezindlela ezivela ku-Google, kunezindlela ezivela ku-Netflix, kuzo zonke izinhlobo zezikhulumi ezivela ezinkomfeni. Ngitshele, yiziphi izinqubo ozithola ziwusizo kakhulu?
Anton: Inkinga ngezinhlangano eziningi, kungakhathaliseki ukuthi zinkulu noma zincane kangakanani (abaqalayo bahlushwa kakhulu yilokhu), ukuthi abanakho ukubonakala kwenqubo—ukuqonda ukuthi sisebenza kanjani ngokuvamile, siyiletha kanjani isofthiwe, lapho izinto zibambeka khona. Ngivame ukuphakamisa umsebenzi ovela endleleni yokuphatha engenamandla - ebizwa ngokuthi i-value stream mapping. Ukwenza imephu ukuhamba kwevelu edilivwe. Lokhu kudinga ukuzimisela okuthile ukuqoqa ekamelweni elilodwa abadlali abakhulu enhlanganweni, bonke abantu abathintekayo ngandlela thize enqubweni yokulethwa: labo abanquma izinguquko ezidingekayo, imikhiqizo, amaphrojekthi, abathuthukisi, abahloli, abaphathi besistimu, ngisho nabantu abadayisi. abasebenza namakhasimende. Zihlanganise zonke futhi uqonde ukuthi ushintsho lwenzeka kanjani ku-software, ukuthi iyiphi indlela evame ukuyithatha.
Lokhu kubonakala kuyinto encane kakhulu: yini ekhona? Kuqhamuke nothile, kube khona owayibhala ngekhodi, sinepayipi, lagijima laphuma. Yebo, yebo, siyazi ukuthi ukwakha kwethu lapha kuthatha isikhathi esiningi, yebo, sizonquma lokho. Yebo, yebo, siyazi ukuthi abahleli manje abakwazi ukuhlanganisa kumakhompyutha abo, ngoba bane-Java, idinga inkumbulo eningi, siyazi futhi ngalokhu, sizonquma. Futhi ngivame ukuza ezinhlanganweni, zithi:
- Yilapho sidinga ukwenza lokhu ngokuzenzakalelayo, ukuxazulula lokhu.
-Uqinisekile ukuthi yilokhu okudingeka uqale ngakho? Ukwazi kanjani lokhu?
- Hhayi-ke, asazi ngokuqinisekile, kodwa sinomuzwa wokuthi kubuhlungu lapho.
Zikhona , okusho ukuthi ngokuvamile, ukuxazulula inkinga kunoma iyiphi indawo engeyona imingcele akuxazululi lutho, kuyomane kuxake inkinga. Okushoda abaningi umqondo wokuthi izinto zibambeka kuphi nokuthi zigeleza kanjani.
Kwesinye isikhathi uvele uqoqe abantu abahlukene, omunye uthi:
- Lapha okwamanje ukukhululwa kuya lapho ukuze kuvunywe.
Futhi omunye uthi:
- Cha, akufani nathi, akusebenzi kithi. Lapha silinde indawo yokuhlolwa komthwalo.
Noma, isibonelo, abahloli bathi:
- Lapha kule ndawo sivame ukwenza konke ngezandla zethu.
Futhi abahleli babatshela ukuthi:
- Hhayi-ke, sinenqubo ezenzakalelayo yalokhu. Kungani ungayisebenzisi?
Futhi abahloli bathi:
- Besingazi ukuthi bekuyini.
Ithimba ngalinye libona ucezu lwalo kuphela, futhi akekho obona sonke isithombe - yilokhu okuvame ukuba nomthelela ekhonweni lethu lokukhipha isofthiwe ngempumelelo kakhulu kunobukhona noma ukungabikho kwethuluzi. Lezi yizinto. Kuyafaneleka ukuqala ngenqubo yokwenza imephu. Kuyacaca ukuthi uma inkampani okwamanje ingenayo i-CI/CD, sekuyinto yesikhathi esidlule. Kuyacaca ukuthi nayo idinga ukwakhiwa. Kodwa kufanelekile ukuqala ukuphendula umbuzo wokuthi ungatshala malini kuwo, yiziphi izinkinga ezizozixazulula. Lokhu kudinga futhi abantu abaqondayo ukuthi kwenziwa kanjani ngendlela efanele.
U-Oleg: Ngokombono wezobuchwepheshe, yibuphi ubuchwepheshe obufanele ukunakwa? Kuyacaca ukuthi ngeke sisakwazi ukukhuluma nge-CI/CD elula. Yibuphi ubuchwepheshe obusha obuhle okufanele buhlolwe?
Anton: Okokuqala, kusobala kuwo wonke umuntu ukuthi iziqukathi ziwinile. Ngakho-ke, uma umuntu engakakwenzi iziqukathi, kufanele nakanjani uzibheke futhi uzibheke ngokushesha, ngoba ukunyakaza kuhamba ngale ndlela, futhi izinkampani ezinkulu seziyaqonda ukuthi zidinga ukugoqa isofthiwe yazo ezitsheni. . Nokho, ezingeni leplathifomu, u-Kubernetes uwinile: akunandaba ukuthi kusefwini noma cha - sizokhipha ibhokisi eline-Kubernetes kumakhasimende. Manje i-VMware isimemezele ukuthi bazoba neKubernetes ngqo ku-hypervisor. Konke kucacile, i-Google iwinile. Okuyinto, ngokuvamile, ayimangazanga muntu.
U-Oleg: I-Google iwinile?
Anton: Hhayi-ke, uma sibheka emuva eminyakeni embalwa edlule, bekungakacaci kahle ukuthi ngabe u-Swarm noma u-Kubernetes uzobulawa yini, nokuthi u-Docker uzobulawa yini. U-Docker ubulewe, kusobala ukuthi. Okusho ukuthi, wonke umuntu wahlangana ndawonye, futhi iMicrosoft ne-Amazon nayo yasiza - "asibulale sonke i-Docker ndawonye." Kubulawe i-Docker! Kodwa ngokuvamile, uDocker ngokwakhe wayenecala. Ingabe bebelindele ukuthi bazoza, baphule isikhunta sabo bonke abantu, bangafuni ukudayisela noma ubani, futhi banqobe wonke umuntu ngesikhathi esisodwa, futhi ngokushesha banqobe i-Google, iMicrosoft, ne-Amazon? Ayemancane kakhulu amathuba okuthi lokhu kwenzeke. Ngokusobala babengamtholi umuntu ababengenza naye ubungane. Uma ungabangani namuntu, ugcina ulahliwe. Futhi kwenzeka.
Ngakho nakhu. Ngakho-ke, udinga ukubheka iziqukathi. Iziqukathi nomculo wezinsimbi kancane kancane sekuyinsakavukela umchilo wesidwaba namuhla. Okusho ukuthi, manje imibiko ezingqungqutheleni ithi "Akukephuzi kakhulu ukuqala nge-Kubernetes, noma ngabe uhola impesheni." Ngakho kuyadingeka. Futhi izinto eziningi ezithokozisayo manje seziqala ukwenzeka ngaseKubernetes. Ngoba esinye sezici ezinhle ze-Kubernetes, ngokuyinhloko, ukudalwa kohlobo oluthile lwe-API yendawo yonke esivumela ukuthi sichaze yonke into eyenzekayo kwingqalasizinda yethu. Onyakeni odlule, sibone imizamo yokusonga inqwaba yezinye izinto kule API. Nansi isihlungo senkonzo - enye yale mizamo, cishe konke ukuqaliswa kwesihlungi sesevisi esikhona manje, ngomqondo othile bathi: "Lapha sizokwandisa i-API, sizokwengeza ubuhlakani, sizochaza izinto ezingaphandle kwe-Kubernetes, kodwa sizofunda izinto ezivela ku-Kubernetes njalonjalo." indlela yokwazi ukuthi yini okufanele uyenze."
Esinye isibonelo esinjalo yilokho okwenzekayo manje nge-Continuous Delivery Foundation, eyahlelwa cishe unyaka nengxenye edlule, futhi, lena i-Google, lena CloudBees, GitLab. Kukhona iphrojekthi ye-Google i-Tekton, umqondo wayo oyinhloko ukwakhiwa kohlobo lwe-API yendawo yonke ukuchaza inqubo yokulethwa eqhubekayo. Ngokuvamile, bazama ukuhlephula konke kube yizinto ezithile okufanele zibe khona ohlelweni oluqhubekayo lokuhlanganisa / ukulethwa okuqhubekayo futhi ngandlela-thile kwenze kube lula ukubhala lezi zinto ku-Kubernetes, ukuze kamuva kube khona zonke izinhlobo izingxenye ezahlukene ezingakwazi ukufunda lezi zincazelo futhi zixazulule ukuthi zenzeni ngazo. Kwenzeka okufanayo ngezisefo zesevisi, ngikhulume ngalokhu kweyami . I-Microsoft manje izama ukwenza i-spec yalokho okufanele kwenziwe isisefo sesevisi, okubizwa nge-SMI Spec. Ngombono wokuthi noma yikuphi ukuqaliswa kwesisefo sesevisi kuzokwazi ukwenza konke okulotshwe kulesi sici kanye nokunye.
Yingakho uKubernetes ephumelele. Okwamanje lapho uba inkundla yokuqamba okusha, kunzima kakhulu ukukukhipha endaweni ethile kamuva, ngoba isivele ikhule kuyo, manje ukulahla i-Kubernetes kuwukulahla ingane ngamanzi okugeza.
Yimiphi imibiko okufanele uye kuyo?
U-Oleg: Yimiphi imibiko oya kuyo, yini oyithola ithakaseleka?
Anton: Okokuqala, uma kukhona isici esisha sezobuchwepheshe, igajethi engingenaso isikhathi sokuzibona mina, futhi kukhona isikhulumi esingakhuluma ngakho ngokucacile, khona-ke ngicabanga ukuthi lokhu ngokuvamile kuyinzuzo engavamile, ngoba esikhundleni sokukhuluma. manje funda, futhi umbe, futhi, mhlawumbe, ngobunzima ukuqonda, ungakwazi ukuza futhi ulalele ngesigamu sehora njengoba umuntu ekubonisa, ekutshela. Futhi, lokhu kudinga ikhono elithile nesifiso sokukwazi ukukhuluma ngobuchwepheshe. Futhi ngiyaqonda ukuthi lokhu nakho akuveli ndawo, udinga ukusebenza kukho. Nami kwangithatha isikhathi eside. Ngendlela, iqiniso lokuthi ngimatasa nokufundisa kwezobuchwepheshe lingisize kakhulu ngalokhu. Uma unekilasi phambi kwakho, udinga ukuchaza okuthile kubantu, futhi uyabona ukuthi kungakhathaliseki ukuthi uchaza kanjani, bayiziphukuphuku - khona-ke uyaqaphela ukuthi, ngokusobala, inkinga isendleleni ochaza ngayo, hhayi iqiniso lokuthi abantu bayiziphukuphuku .
U-Oleg: Hlobo luni lwemfundo yobuchwepheshe? Wenzani?
Anton: Bengifundisa iziyalo zobuchwepheshe cishe iminyaka engu-7-8 manje. Kwaqala ngami ukufundisa izinto ezifana ne-Maven ne-shell scripting unyaka wonke. Njengoba ngangisebenza eduze kakhulu noJenkins futhi ngikwazi ngokujulile, ngafundisa abantu indlela yokusebenzisana noJenkins nokuphatha. Eminyakeni yamuva - konke okuhlobene nendabuko yamafu: Kubernetes, iziqukathi nakho konke okuzungezile. Ngizoya eLondon maduze ngiyokwenza i-master class ku-Istio. Lena akuyona ingxenye eyinhloko yomsebenzi wami, kodwa cishe kanye ngenyanga noma ezimbili ngiqhuba amakilasi aphakeme.
U-Oleg: Ingabe uya kakhulu ngokufuna umbiko, isihloko noma umuntu?
Anton: Uma ngazi ukuthi isikhulumi sihle, ngiya kumuntu ngoba nje kusabaluleke kakhulu ukuba ngifunde kwabanye abantu indlela yokukhuluma kahle. Ukufunda kubalulekile njalo. Uma kunesihloko, kodwa ngingasazi isikhulumi, ngizohamba ngiyoyibuka, kodwa kuyafana njengokujwayelekile, njengokuya endaweni yokuma: Ngibuke imizuzu yokuqala ye-10-15, angizange' ngayithanda, futhi ngahamba. Noma zikhona izikhulumi engizoya kuzo impela ngoba zihlale zikhuluma izinto ezithokozisayo, ziyakwazi nokukhombisa izinto ozaziyo ngokwazo, kulula futhi kuwena ijika yonke indaba isuke kwelinye. . Kulabo engibathandayo muva nje... Okokuqala, kukhona uSimon Wardley - umxhumanisi, uneqhinga lakhe lokudweba amamephu, usebenzisa amamephu ukuchaza ukuthi izinkampani zingakha kanjani isu lazo ngendlela efanele, wake waba uhlobo oluthile lwe... bese kuba ne-CTO, i-CEO ye-startups, ikhuluma kakhulu ngalokhu, mayelana nobuchwepheshe. Ngendlela, uhlala enqoba i-serverless futhi uthi labo abangenzi i-serverless namuhla banezinkinga ezinkulu.
U-Oleg: Lona u-comrade ? Wakwenza ngesimo sezigxobo. Ifomethi engajwayelekile.
Anton: Impela ukhuluma ngendlela ehlekisayo. Ngikhumbula izinkulumo zakhe eminyakeni engu-2-3 edlule kunakho konke. Hhayi-ke, nangu u-John Willis, owafika ku-DevOops ngonyaka odlule - ngoba nje yena . Kunenkinga ethile ngaye, ngoba ukhuluma kakhulu ngeqiniso laseMelika, izinto ngezinye izikhathi ezingasebenzi kuqiniso laseRussia noma lakwa-Israel. Manje sebenohlobo oluthile lwempi enamabhodi okugunyaza ushintsho, abahlale bekhuluma ngawo. Lokhu, ngokusobala, kuyinto ethile ekhona emabhizinisini aseMelika; kunenqubo yokwenza kanye nokugunyaza izinguquko ku-IT; udinga ukudlula kwamanye amakomiti.
U-Oleg: Kodwa asinakho lokho - angiqondi nokuthi ukhuluma ngani manje.
Anton: Nami angiqondi ngempela; lokhu akwenzeki nakwa-Israyeli. Futhi lapho bakhuluma ngakho. Uma ulalela wonke la maqabane, njengo-DORA, ubani , nabo babhala okuningi ngalokhu. Ngokuvamile, ngiqonde ukuthi abantu bakhuluma ngenkinga ethile abanayo kuphela, futhi akukuthakaseli nhlobo.
U-Oleg: Ubukade uku-Devoops edlule, yiziphi izinkulumo okufanele uye kuzo futhi ubuyekeze okurekhodiwe?
Anton: Bheka . Nginentshisekelo kancane esihlokweni - hamba.
U-Oleg: Kukhona u-Anton Weiss lapho, ngiyacabanga. Cishe kuwufanele ukubukeka.
Anton: Cha, ungakuhambeli lokhu, kuyisicefe :)
U-Oleg: Kulungile, ngiyabonga kakhulu. Bekupholile! Ngiyabona ukuthi usuvele ulihambisile iphepha enkomfeni elandelayo, ngakho-ke sizokubona ku-DevOops elandelayo!
Ingqungquthela izoba ngo-April 29-30, kulokhu eMoscow. Sichaze ingqikithi yengqungquthela ngo-Habré esimemezelweni . Uhlelo luyakhiwa ngenkuthalo (kusenezinyanga eziningi ngaphambi kwengqungquthela), kodwa izikhulumi zokuqala sezivele sezikhona . Lapho ungakwazi .
Source: www.habr.com
