NFP founder Sergei Lozhkin told me what simulation modeling and digital twins are, why our developers are cheap and cool in Europe, and why Russia has a high level of digitalization.
Come in if you want to find out how it works, who needs Digital Twin in Russia, how much the project costs and how to learn it.
A digital twin is an exact virtual copy of a real object or process. They have long been actively used throughout the world to save money and increase safety. Russia is also finally starting to move in this direction, and it’s all the more pleasant that we have cool companies listed even on the foreign market.
Watch the full version of the interview (a little over an hour) on my YouTube channel, everything is very lively and interesting, and there are time codes in the first comment.
Here, in a very condensed form, I will give some points, creatively reworked for the printed format.
Farya:
— How long has the “Simulation Modeling” area been operating in your company and why did you decide to do it?
Sergei:
— In 2016, we had an employee who knew what Anylogic was. He said the topic is cool, let's do it. And we started without even knowing what it was. We started investing there, training people, looking for leads. And then this person quit... And since we had already dug some way, we decided to continue.
- Well, look, some new thing has appeared that needs to be developed, but you perfectly understood that most of the market is “state dry land” with the corresponding mentality and collapsing factories that will somehow have to be modeled. Did you really believe in this technology or did you just decide to do something trendy?
— I wouldn’t say that it was fashionable then, the idea there was very interesting. In my opinion, digital experiments on models await us in all areas; we must go there in any case. Americans, for example, simulate entire military battles, place tanks, planes, infantry and watch the result of the battle.
Well, this is in the military sphere. In civilian America, Europe has also been modeled for a very long time. China is striving for modeling by leaps and bounds. For example, the German company SimPlan used Anylogic to simulate the operation of an Airbus aircraft, Mercedes actively uses it, and any large company plays with models. We have cutting-edge companies doing this. Both commercial and government, for which, by the way, digital transformation is one of the main topics now.
- Well, we know how it goes...
- We know... but they will have to give some result. It’s impossible to just talk about this all the time, I’ll start asking soon. So they need to do something.
— Who are your clients?
— These are mostly large companies. Conventionally, the TOP 1000 are our target clients. These are mainly commercial companies and commercial ones with government participation. Clients include strategic companies in the energy, gas production, and air transportation industries.
— What are they interested in modeling?
“They are interested in simulating processes that are expensive to experiment with. Well, for example, there is a smelting furnace the size of a house, and any mistake in changing a technical process that was set in stone back in the 60s can be very expensive. Therefore, despite the fact that the efficiency of the process can be increased, experiments are not carried out.
In this case, you can create a “digital twin”, which takes into account the processes in the furnace and all the equipment - warehouses, cranes, etc. and simulate the whole thing. For example, see what happens if we do not lower the temperature in the oven.
— So, how does a digital twin differ from simulation modeling?
— Simulation modeling is the process of creating and working with a digital twin, i.e. with a virtual copy of a physical object or process. This could be a business process, for example, call routing, railway transport, cars, anything related to logistics, etc.
In general, a digital twin is a hype topic, and a lot of things can be adjusted to it. This could be a model of some kind of iron, or you could call the implementation of 1C a digital twin of accounting. We narrow this concept to any physical processes.
— Why do you think that simulation modeling is a hype topic? I almost never hear about digital twins. Moreover, when I looked for vacancies on hh for Anylogic, which you use, there were few of them, and more than half were related to you.
— In the spring, we were in Munich at a conference on simulation modeling, got acquainted with companies that do this, and I can say that Russia lags behind in this regard. There is a large market for simulation modeling in the states, where everything is simulated. And in Europe, for example, you cannot build infrastructure facilities without modeling; they even modeled the Volkswagen plant, which we have in Kaluga.
Even if we take Anylogic, a Russian software for simulation modeling that is actively used all over the world, in Russia the volume of use of this product is less than 10%, according to them. That is, our modeling is, in fact, just in its infancy. And now we have more and more conscious requests from clients.
— When you come to companies with your ideas, do you often encounter resistance?
- Often. Especially in companies where the “old school” people hold on to their jobs and say that “this thing” will not allow them to improve efficiency. It even happens that management wants it, but we have to work at a lower level, with foremen, dispatchers, and there is also resistance on their part.
But now there is a noticeable trend towards change, and it is being felt more and more clearly. The “old people” are leaving, and the new ones are coming, they already think differently. In addition, as I said, now everyone is almost being pushed into digital transformation, training is being provided, and even at enterprises in the outback, advanced guys are increasingly being met. It happens that Muscovites are sent there on business trips, and they develop everything there.
— Do you feel a personnel shortage?
— It depends on the situation, we are a design organization. If there are many projects, then hunger is felt, because the developer needs to be trained for several months. Now I would not say that there is a hunger, we are recruiting about one person per month due to the fact that the number of projects is increasing, but there is no huge race in this regard.
— How much do you pay?
— A junior can earn about 50k rubles. In general, we have fairly standard rates. Normal salaries start from 80k and go up to the ceiling. If a person is loved by clients and he improves well, then he can quickly earn a good salary of 120k.
— That is, a person programmed for several years, studied Java, came to you and he has prospects of reaching 200k.
- Yes.
— (meaningful look into the camera)
— I noticed that on YouTube you have part of the video in English. Then I find an article that you are entering the British market. Why?
— We really plan to enter the British market, we have a goal that half of the revenue will be foreign. I want to work around the world. Now we have a few such projects, but we would like it to be on an ongoing basis.
— Are there prospects and interest in you in Europe?
- Depends on what we offer. For example, we are currently conducting training on simulation modeling and RPA for Europe and groups of 20–30 people are being recruited who then want to contact us.
— I also liked the article that they have fewer checks, better legal and judicial systems, and the costs for developers are very high. Do I understand correctly that the developers will sit here and work abroad?
— Yes, well, this is a classic of the genre.
— It’s just not the first time I’ve noticed that we have new companies that are doing hype business, which is very popular abroad, but has not yet gained momentum in Russia. Accordingly, they are starting to make projects for the foreign market, and I’m somehow offended for our developers, because they are, in fact, cheap labor with brains that can be exploited very well and sold cool projects abroad.
— I don’t quite agree that this is exploitation, because such a developer receives very good bonuses. Yes, he will not receive the same income as a person who lives in the UK, but living expenses there are higher.
- So, in essence, you just take at a price?
— Don’t forget that we are not cheaper than the Indians. It turns out that we can only offer what the Indians don’t know how to do, which really requires expertise, engineering and all sorts of complex things that we do better.
— How much does your model cost?
- From half a million rubles to infinity. We reached 10 million.
— How much can a 10 million model save your client?
- Billions. Infrastructure projects are very expensive.
— How do you convince customers that it is profitable for them to buy a model from you?
— The easiest option for us is when the company is aware of why simulation modeling is needed and simply keeps us busy as performers. Another level is when we ourselves can offer efficiency; this is consulting, in essence. In this case, simulation is just one of the tools, such as RPA, 1C, or simply some technical regulation. Behind the tool is an idea, and behind the idea is a strategy.
So, when we communicate at the level of ideas, we can sell somewhere, but not somewhere else - we are not so mature from this point of view. And then we go into one industry or another, because it is impossible to be an expert in everything.
— Do you come to them yourself?
“Now they mostly come to us.”
If you like it, I invite you to watch . You will also learn how digital twins are created and what they are, how to learn how to develop them, and what machine learning and science have to do with it.
Write in the comments what you think about simulation modeling and Sergei’s words.
Source: habr.com